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A/I shuts down

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Re: A/I shuts down

#541

Post by runtime_terror »

xienze wrote: post #384
Barrin92 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jan 6, didn't work, not entirely sure why you bring this up as a blueprint for anyone. It was an actual LARP and as Bruno Macaes wrote resembled a bunch of people making it to the end of a videogame, then running around confused in costumes and going for a drink. What did work for them was pouring money into the election system and party apparatus, media, the courts and then taking control over politics

> Jan 6, didn't work, not entirely sure why you bring this up as a blueprint for anyone. Might want to let the Democrats know that. According to them the government was >this< close to being overthrown. Which is funny, because if anyone truly believes that, we don't stand a chance against pretty much any country on earth.

I don't know a single prominent Democrat who thought they had a chance of succeeding, just that they even tried was enough for them to be unpatriotic cultists

Re: A/I shuts down

#542

Post by Arainach »

x-complexity wrote: post #485
Arainach wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn't speech.

As you said yourself: > > If you believe in civil liberties as rights and ideals, your belief shouldn't stop at borders. If you believe in civil liberties as rights and ideals, your belief shouldn't stop at money. Either the right extends everywhere, including money, or it doesn't.

That doesn't follow.

It's OK to say you wish a politician was dead. It's not OK to pay someone to kill them. It's OK to say that you support some criminal activity (let's say Luigi), but it's not OK to offer direct financial support for their crimes.

Re: A/I shuts down

#543

Post by vrganj »

politician wrote: post #350
vrganj wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, whatever laws you have in the US is irrelevant in Italy, where they have their own free speech and the US is the foreign country . Free speech has been around as a concept for two millenia, starting with Athenian democracy. Your relatively recent constitution didn't invent it and harping on your particular implementation is off-topic.

[flagged]

Who's talking about your right to free speech? The point is that the US is infringing on these Italians' right to free speech, which they have independent of your national mythology, because y'know, it's not exactly a novel concept around here.

Americans can be so self-absorbed sometimes, they apparently think they're the only ones with rights or that their constitution matters anywhere outside their borders. Whatever rules you have for whoever, they don't apply in Italy.

The point is that this move was an unacceptable violation of our rights here and our sovereignty, as defined by us. We don't like brash foreigners coming in and abusing systems we set up in the spirit of cooperation to extort us, no matter the stories they tell themselves.

This is precisely why Europe is working on initiatives to decouple from the American payment system as we speak.

As a result of this extraterritorial aggression I expect further deterioration of global US standing and with it, further weakening of its power. In a way, I even agree with your last sentence, but do be aware that precisely this is currently being worked on and you probably won't enjoy its results.

Re: A/I shuts down

#544

Post by vrganj »

politician wrote: post #477
Arainach wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hmm, I would have expected more outrage from the US "free speech absolutists" over this US government decision The crowd that claims to be in favor of free speech should be in favor of free speech for everyone, not just US citizens. This thread isn't about the government - it's about how HN's very vocal "free speech" crowd are actually libertarians who want to say awful things and not get called out rather than peo…

Why is my position invalid? I'm in favor of the exact type of free speech provided by the Bill of Rights for citizens of the USA, of which I am one, and that I do not care about the fantastical universal "for everyone" form of free speech that is being pushed on HN? Let your own countries defend their own "free speech" rights. The UN cannot defend it for you, and you cannot defend it for yourself.

So basically your position is imperialism mixed with some weird provincial fetishization of some document, not being pro free speech?

And you wonder why people consider that both ugly and simultaneously ridiculous?

Re: A/I shuts down

#545

Post by ethbr1 »

TMWNN wrote: post #513
micromacrofoot wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bro if 2k people broke into work looking for you, it would probably be something you think about a whole lot

> ~~2k~~ 250 unarmed people ~~broke into work~~ mysteriously allowed in are looking for you, while dozens of trained armed police officers surround you , it would probably be something you think about a whole lot FTFY

It's hard to reconcile a conspiracy theory that protestors were allowed to storm the Capitol with the fact that Ashli Babbitt was shot on video for refusing calls to stop breaching a barricade.

Police and security trying to manage a dynamic situation with minimum loss of life by not immediately gunning down quasi-violent crowd is a more reasonable conclusion.

Regardless, 100% of which is Trump's fault for incitement.

Re: A/I shuts down

#546

Post by mitxela »

stale2002 wrote: post #516
Sharlin wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how large a percentage of those who identify with the umbrella term "antifa" do you think are actually members of violent terrorist cells?

Like the anarchist groups that dress in all black and attack people/infra/stores in the middle of the night during riot? Its hard to say, because political violence is a spectrum and the border is very blurry between being an organized violent rioter and someone engaging in terroristic activities. Both are bad in their own way. But fundamentally there doesn't seem to be a huge categorical/technical difference between…

Are you antifa?

Re: A/I shuts down

#547

Post by stale2002 »

mitxela wrote: post #546
stale2002 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the anarchist groups that dress in all black and attack people/infra/stores in the middle of the night during riot? Its hard to say, because political violence is a spectrum and the border is very blurry between being an organized violent rioter and someone engaging in terroristic activities. Both are bad in their own way. But fundamentally there doesn't seem to be a huge categorical/technical difference between…

Are you antifa?

I don't go around dressed in black with anarchist symbols and wearing a mask, attacking people or destroying stores at riots in the middle of the night, no.

I generally stay away from that type of stuff and instead support non-violent, political change that happens within the system and I think those destructive groups are engaging in ineffective and bad tactics.

Re: A/I shuts down

#548

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

mitxela wrote: post #504
joquarky wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why gun manufacturers aren't responsible for the behavior of their users, but this org is.

IIRC from the last A/I thread, there's actually a special law that basically says gun manufacturers are not liable for what people do with the guns, and says it specifically about guns, not any other industry.

No other industry needed that law. The PLCAA was put in place in 2005 because anti-gun specifically devised a plan to sue gun makers in lieu of any success in changing gun laws.

It is absolute nonsense to ignore why the law exists while you complain about it existing.

Re: A/I shuts down

#549

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

lokar wrote: post #380
threethirtytwo wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait this is not true. I’m truly neutral here. The site lists actual terror attacks where the tools were used. That’s pretty damning if accurate. Anyone care to comment on that? I’m not well informed but the statement does not look like just straight up name calling.

Has any terrorist group ever used Gmail to communicate?

Is Gmail used for anything else? Lots, right?

Now, what about A/I group? Ah… well, there is your answer.

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