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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#541

Post by Retr0id »

cromka wrote: post #45
slopinthebag wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacBooks don't need as much ram - I have an m1 air with 8gb of ram and it's perfectly serviceable, I can even run IntelliJ on it...

I never run out of memory on macoOS on my M1 Air 16GB. Now that I use Asahi on it, I had plenty of OoM crashes. macOS is really good at memory management, including the compression and offloading to the fast SSD.

Do you use Firefox? I have a theory that there's some kind of Firefox-aarch64-linux-specific memory leak but I haven't been able to track it down. I have a 16GB x86-64 Thinkpad and I rarely get OOM issues, whereas my 32GB M1 MBP running Asahi is always on the brink of OOM.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#542

Post by joxdosba »

sfjailbird wrote: post #539
whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

It's funny how Apple has come full circle. Back in the 90s, when they were in deep crisis (before the second coming of Jobs), it was almost conventional wisdom that they should just stop selling hardware, and focus on their superior software. And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS.

> And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS

Are there actually a lot of such people? Linux-on-desktop users are certainly loud, but also extremely uncommon.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#543

Post by 3form »

joxdosba wrote: post #542
sfjailbird wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Apple has come full circle. Back in the 90s, when they were in deep crisis (before the second coming of Jobs), it was almost conventional wisdom that they should just stop selling hardware, and focus on their superior software. And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS.

> And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS Are there actually a lot of such people? Linux-on-desktop users are certainly loud, but also extremely uncommon.

I'm sure a lot of the crowd that's using Windows as more than a browser OS would also find things to complain about. There's a ton of differences in how to do things at OS level, having to find other software, from time to time poor hardware support, different security mechanisms, being locked out of 80% of PC gaming by OS more than ARM... I guess the list could go on.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#544

Post by aurareturn »

joxdosba wrote: post #542
sfjailbird wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Apple has come full circle. Back in the 90s, when they were in deep crisis (before the second coming of Jobs), it was almost conventional wisdom that they should just stop selling hardware, and focus on their superior software. And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS.

> And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS Are there actually a lot of such people? Linux-on-desktop users are certainly loud, but also extremely uncommon.

They're very loud online. If you hang out in any technology forum online, it feels like everyone is running Linux on their mac/Lenovo/Framework/etc.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#545

Post by layer8 »

46493168 wrote: post #289
layer8 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure a lot of Apple devices are sold due to the image projected by Apple’s marketing.

That is, indeed, the purpose of advertising.

You wrote “I would be surprised to find that any consumer chooses a device because of its marketing spend”. But advertising does skew consumer choice by its presentation, and the success correlates with marketing spend. It’s far from merely informational. Otherwise we’d just have black on white listings of “this product exists” with spec sheets.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#546

Post by hvb2 »

cardanome wrote: post #213
benoau wrote: post #101

As nice as Apple's hardware is it's all undermined by who they are as a company, intentionally limiting their devices more and more while they relentlessly argue in courts and to regulators that we owe them more and more for using our devices. Rosetta 2's retirement announcement was when I realized I won't buy another Mac, I'm not interested in a computer that is preoccupied with stopping me from running software. Wo…

That is all true but even as a hardcore Linux and Thinkpad user, I have to admit it is a hard sell when no one can offer the quality of Apple. Apple is the only hardware company where you can buy a product and it is good hardware wise. Sure other companies have flagship offerings but with apple you get a really good base model. And that is where it breaks down for me. Pay 20% more for freedom? Yes, absolutely. But pa…

> I don't know why no one else can produce a laptop with decent battery life with an near silent fan and good display and overall great production quality.

Isn't that the whole reason why Apple is the company it is? Steve Jobs wanted to control the software AND the hardware. That hasn't changed, they're still the only one really. That does get you some benefits

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#547

Post by herewulf »

drnick1 wrote: post #137

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

Absolutely, and this is also a big deal for longevity of your purchase. I have an iMac from 2012 and it's a beautiful piece of reliable hardware, with a beautiful screen. However, the software is stuck on some version of macOS from years ago and so more and more applications are refusing to install. It's on life support with Firefox ESR and MacPorts (just recently — was on Homebrew). And it works fine for browsing and some light FOSS gaming. Not if Apple had their way though! They think it ought to be in the dump and I should have bought something else by now.

Well, I have a Framework 13 also, running Linux, and despite the hardware being from 2022, it's all current software. And it will continue to be, practically as long as I wish it.

So, yes, if we want to talk about value (like the author of the article), where is the value when some capricious corporation decides when you are done with your computer?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#548

Post by rjrjrjrj »

joxdosba wrote: post #542
sfjailbird wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Apple has come full circle. Back in the 90s, when they were in deep crisis (before the second coming of Jobs), it was almost conventional wisdom that they should just stop selling hardware, and focus on their superior software. And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS.

> And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS Are there actually a lot of such people? Linux-on-desktop users are certainly loud, but also extremely uncommon.

No, but they are all on HN. And before that, Slashdot.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#549

Post by regexorcist »

youre-wrong3 wrote: post #359
dijit wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

last time I tried Linux on ARM (a month ago) nothing worked. No sound, no webcam, no USB-C(iirc) and no video hardware acceleration. It was a Thinkpad T14s with Snapdragon Elite X-2 if it matters.

Had a similar issue and just pointed codex at my laptop and it got everything working.

Same. By the time I got back it had even upstreamed a few device drivers to mainline Linux, all on its own.
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