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Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

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Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#541

Post by yegg »

kqr wrote: post #520
Izmaki wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious: what is your use-case for a search engine that justifies Kagi over free search engines? Are you not finding your results on page one, first try, with other engines?

For what it's worth I find about the same things using Kagi as I do using DuckDuckGo. But with Kagi I get to pay for the service I use and that's their funding model and that's very healthy so I want to support that.

FYI, we (DuckDuckGo) now have a subscription service (https://duckduckgo.com/pro) and one could always turn off ads on our search engine (https://duckduckgo.com/settings).

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#542

Post by acdha »

simianwords wrote: post #522
acdha wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m saying that when you start by dismissing a large group of people with a range of views as hysterical it’s pretty clear that you’re not here for any intellect reasons but rather just to defend a technology which you’ve incorporated into your self-identity.

“The accuracy issues are real” my main point was that ChatGPT is more accurate than Google or kagi. If you can’t even believe this or you need sources, there’s no debate. You are ignorant of the strengths of LLMs.

That’s not just wrong but a category error[1] and it also misses the other arguments. The fact that you think wanting sources is a problem is a rather perfect demonstration that you aren’t approaching this carefully, though.

Ironically, if you ask an LLM this question it gives a much better answer than you have so far, although both of the ones I used still miss the larger impact on the web.

1. A search result’s accuracy is attributed to the source, whereas an LLM’s summary is attributed to the LLM—especially in the cases where it “cites” sources which don’t make the claims it emitted.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#543

Post by mapt »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #429
mapt wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I tried Gemini "Can you find the origin of this story I remember from 10+ years ago? Here's three paragraphs of what I recall" "Yeah, it sounds like a very common copypasta back in the early 2010's, related to XYZ" "So... uhh... provide me a link please" "I can't provide links" "You're a search engine" "I don't have a current connection to the Internet." "Well can you give me any examples of anything even v…

I've encountered this as well. I'm pretty sure it is unable to produce answers involving some copyrighted works. For example, I was trying to find an old video and it filled in the gaps in my knowledge very accurately, however it absolutely could not provide an actual link to the video or any concrete content related to the video. In my case I suspect the original uploader took down their videos from YouTube or there…

"Selective agnosia"

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#544

Post by pseudohadamard »

fbnlsr wrote: post #17

I usually switch between DuckDuckGo and Startpage. Both are good.

Startpage is a disenshittifier for Google. I switched to it some years ago because of exactly that feature, but I also wonder how much longer Google will allow it to operate as such.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#545

Post by simianwords »

acdha wrote: post #542
simianwords wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The accuracy issues are real” my main point was that ChatGPT is more accurate than Google or kagi. If you can’t even believe this or you need sources, there’s no debate. You are ignorant of the strengths of LLMs.

That’s not just wrong but a category error[1] and it also misses the other arguments. The fact that you think wanting sources is a problem is a rather perfect demonstration that you aren’t approaching this carefully, though. Ironically, if you ask an LLM this question it gives a much better answer than you have so far, although both of the ones I used still miss the larger impact on the web. 1. A search result’s accu…

> 1. A search result’s accuracy is attributed to the source, whereas an LLM’s summary is attributed to the LLM—especially in the cases where it “cites” sources which don’t make the claims it emitted.

This makes no sense. Don’t ask the llm for summary. Ask it for the links directly. In what way are they different? ChatGPT is a superset of a search engine.

Here’s an example of me using it: https://chatgpt.com/share/6a159c95-3bfc-832a-bfed-52188a548d...

If your fundamental problem is the accuracy of ai overview I’m with you. But AI mode works well.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#546

Post by BrunoBernardino »

BrunoBernardino wrote: post #493
prism56 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it index new reddit content? I refuse to use Google, DDG doesn't seem to surface much new reddit content. Currently settled on Kagi but the price is a little steep, happy to support EU based services.

My wife did just share she recently gets reddit at the top of long-tail searches, and I _believe_ her primary search provider is Mojeek.

I said recently, but I meant "frequently". Too late to edit, now.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#547

Post by kimos »

kqr wrote: post #521
kimos wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am also hopelessly tied to Google Maps. Which I think is relatively distinct from web search, IMO.

What are you missing from a decent OpenStreetMap frontend like OsmAnd+? Only business metadata or something else too?

Businesses and reviews mostly. Not navigation.

I participated actively in the Google Local Guides. I depend on the content from there to discover stuff geographically. But I’m also aware reviews and interactions and even images that look human can’t really be counted on anymore.

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#548

Post by justinclift »

carlosjobim wrote: post #210
justinclift wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kagi stats graphs (showing membership growth) since May 20th when Google announced their replacment of Google Search speaks for itself: https://kagi.com/stats Slow gradual growth before, large increase in the daily growth rate since. It'll be interesting keeping an eye on how that growth rate goes over time. :)

That chart is programmed to always shows the same shape, no matter if the number of subscribers increased by 10 or by 10 000.

Damn, that sounds deceptively done then. :(

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#549

Post by justinclift »

vitaflo wrote: post #159
justinclift wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kagi stats graphs (showing membership growth) since May 20th when Google announced their replacment of Google Search speaks for itself: https://kagi.com/stats Slow gradual growth before, large increase in the daily growth rate since. It'll be interesting keeping an eye on how that growth rate goes over time. :)

Gaining 700 users "speaks for itself"? All this stats page shows me is how few people actually use Kagi. You'd think it was millions of users based on the way people astroturf it here.

Doesn't "astroturf" mean false statements rather than people just being enthusiastic about something?

Re: Search engines alternatives now that Google isn't Google anymore

#550

Post by yegg »

fransje26 wrote: post #494
yegg wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI, at DuckDuckGo we have a search setting to turn ads off: https://duckduckgo.com/settings We also have a no ai version: https://noai.duckduckgo.com/

I've been happily using DuckDuckGo on my devices for many years. The only gripe I have is that the default maps are painful to use. On my system (Linux + Firefox), for some reason, half the time they fail to load, and need a refresh to be displayed. Also, would it be possible to add the option to specify a region for the "Shopping" tab, in the same way it can be done for search & images?

Thanks. On the maps, is this through a VPN?
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