If they believe it's OK to cane the kids, why limit it to boys? Girls can also be extremely nasty to each other
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Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
541–550 of 713 posts
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#542Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never said its nice or justifyable. I wish there was a grown up to talk with here. I know the russian bully culture. Stop talking down to evil people that only exist in your head.
> From all the bugs in humanity, this one is one of the nicer ones. > I never said its nice or justifyable Sir are you schizophrenic?
On a list of cthullian horrors, its one of the less uglier ones. On a scale from mere bad to "reading about it damages yourself", the "nice" is a word describing its location on that scale.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#543Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about when the perpetrators are also victims? If child A is bullying child B because they themselves are suffering abuse at home (as is often the case), don't both kids deserve help and support? Just beating up child A is no more productive a solution than throwing people in jail.
> If child A is bullying child B because they themselves are suffering abuse at home Experiencing hardship doesn't excuse violence against others, just like it wouldn't excuse breaking the law. You can say "here is the punishment for your bad behaviour, now let's ALSO have child services remove you from that environment AND have the justice system punish your parents' bad behaviour". Everybody has their job and if th…
> Experiencing hardship doesn't excuse violence against others
I totally agree, but I don't agree that forgoing violence as a punishment is the same as excusing the bad behaviour. The best outcome for everyone is surely rehabilitation, no? There are other punishment options if you still insist on inflicting some hardship.
> Over 60% of violent crime is committed by under 5% of the population. Don't underestimate the value of simply removing repeat violent offenders from society.
That neatly avoids the question of why they reoffend, which is precisely my point. If prison is effective as a deterrent then why do they keep coming back? "Simply removing them" for a period of time simply perpetuates the problem, thus helping to ensure more violent crime in the future, not less.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about when the perpetrators are also victims? If child A is bullying child B because they themselves are suffering abuse at home (as is often the case), don't both kids deserve help and support? Just beating up child A is no more productive a solution than throwing people in jail.
At the point a parent is beating up their own kid I wonder what options are available. If they're removed from the family then placing them in foster care almost always leads to worse outcomes than leaving them with the abusive family. The state doesn't know how to raise children.
Then surely the focus should be on solving that problem? Just clamping down on the proximate cause doesn't really help - as others have pointed out, it seems likely to incite revenge attacks rather than stopping the bullying.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#545The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…
this can only be effective if the school isn't counting on the bully to help the school win various sports competitions over the next few years. often the school is in a tough spot because the only reason some jocks are there is for their sport ability, that the school needs.
In this case it was at roughly age 8-10. It was a sporty school and I don't think it prioritised that above student wellbeing, not at the level of one individual player anyway.
That said, I know school sports is a way bigger deal in the US than most other countries so YMMV.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#546The only effective punishment/threat that I saw work on my bullies at school was the threat to remove one of them from the football team and prevent him from playing for the school. He turned it around and was ok after that. It was highly effective because it was a bigger punishment than those used for not doing your homework, and because it was highly relevant to him specifically. It worked because we had 16 student…
The generalized version of this is "take away something they care about". But it's not always easy to do. In many cases, schools have nothing the kids care about. If they do, rules often prohibit them from using it as leverage. And in many cases parents also are unwilling to apply any kind of consequence that would make their kid unhappy.
It is a sad state of affairs if there's nothing a kid cares about at school.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but then again our housemaster was an Afrikaner What are you saying?
That the apartheid regime and its proponents were not terribly nice people. Sorry if that’s a controversial stance these days.
It appears that you are saying that because someone is an Afrikaner, they must be a member of the apartheid regime or a proponent thereof.
If you are not saying this, then it's unclear how this is related to your previous comment.
You could write a comment that makes sense by saying "Afrikaners usually believed in weird corporal punishments because that was normal in their culture" or something and that would be perfectly acceptable.
Or perhaps, you have some specific knowledge that this guy was actually a proponent of apartheid, which you should share.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#548Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some dysfunctional kids are there because of trauma, others because of opportunism and poor impulse control they'll eventually grow out of, and some are fundamentally defective and no amount of support will make them less destructive or dangerous to themselves and others. Psychopathy and narcissism are psychological/emotional disabilities. They're the emotional equivalent of being born without a limb - or in congenit…
It’s been said that the British executed about 1% of their population each year for a few hundred years, and that a similar number died in prison. The claim is that this made Britain a much safer country in later centuries.
One would be trading a chance of being murdered by psychopaths on the street for a chance of being murdered by psychopaths in the government.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#549Earlier quoted context omitted.
Put them in work programs. If they can’t be productive, put them in mental institutions. To be clear, abuse in these programs should be prevented as much as feasible, and there should be an opportunity for any kid who demonstrates redemption to get back in school. It’s a bad solution, but I don’t know any which is better. Keeping them in society is worse for innocent people (and doesn’t seem to usually benefit them e…
> Put them in work programs. If they can’t be productive, put them in mental institutions. People with this mentality should never, ever be given any semblance of power. In almost every one of your comments you went to the extreme but "forced labor" and "committed to mental asylum" really take the cake. > but I don’t know any which is better. Are you genuinely wondering what's better, investing in prisons or in educa…
I think he makes a good point. Why do we let disruptive kids stay in the same class as the kids who want to study? The current state is terrible.
Re: Singapore introduces caning for boys who bully others at school
#550Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was no bully, but I was caned frequently at school for various other offences. It had zero impact. I saw having to go and queue at the headmaster’s study in the morning for six of the best as a cost of doing business. Short, sharp, sore palms for the morning, over and done with. Now, satisfecit was much more of a threat - having to report every half hour all day every day, having teachers report on every lesson, ev…
Have you ever thought about or identified what could have changed your ways, whatever those were that I presume were inconsiderate of others or even violations of people? Or was it more that you were pushing back against the industrialized human cog factory we call education in the west?
I was a class clown type, but not a bully.
> Have you ever thought about or identified what could have changed your ways
An ADHD diagnosis and treatment.