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GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

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Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#541

Post by SomeUserName432 »

tsanzer wrote: post #512
SomeUserName432 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having rented cars a lot, this is actually quite common.

What country, I haven't seen anything but unlimited miles for over a decade.

I referred to the swapping of cars to a far inferior model than you paid for.

However I do also pay for milage (KM), and extending the rental period does often* NOT extend the milage range. Eg 1 month=1000 KM, 2 months=1000 KM, so you need to split the rental periods yourself and do all that hassle, or pay extra.

(*May of course vary depending on the rental company)

This being in Brazil.

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#542

Post by self_awareness »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #506
self_awareness wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber and Airbnb are not autonomous robots. If people wouldn't use their services, nothing would happen. They would just go bankrupt. So yeah, I'd say it's entirely people's fault. Because people just wanted to use their services without thinking what they're causing. Customers who think only about themselves and noone else.

I disagree completely. You cannot expect every consumer to be fully educated and aware of the consequences of their purchasing power. This is the role of legislation, educated experts creating policies so that you don't have to do business analysis before making a purchase. Would I pay 10x the price for tokens and be outcompeted by other companies, hoping that openAI will go out of business ? This is entirely unreali…

Was the business model of Uber ever a secret? What about AirBnb?

Even if we argue that we can't require from every human being to understand what they're doing, I'd still argue that there are more people who perfectly understand it and don't care than people who have no idea how such a business operates.

> You cannot expect every consumer to be fully educated and aware of the consequences of their purchasing power.

Huh? I cannot expect that people understand consequences of their actions? What are we, animals? Of course sometimes things aren't simple, and we cannot predict that using some service will create some longterm effects that in the end will be harmful. Some things are hard to predict.

But some things are easy to predict and my point is that this was exactly this case.

I mean, now we all know what Uber and AirBnb did, and we still use them because we don't care (generally speaking, I've used uber maybe 3 times in my life, AirBnb never).

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#543

Post by hakunin »

self_awareness wrote: post #496
hakunin wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On pi coding agent, it worked very well for me over the past few months, but started glitching more recently, just prior to this announcement.

This might be Pi being buggy as heck. When using opencode or copilot CLI, the error messages are displayed normally and it's possible to see what's going on. Under Pi, it sometimes just hangs, or Pi crashes with some bun stacktrace and that's it. Copilot has introduced additional limits for Claude models in past month, and it's rather easy to hit it. Pi often doesn't show anything when this limit hits (although somet…

Hm, didn’t encounter any crashes you describe in my usage, but your second paragraph sounds familiar.

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#544

Post by 4gotunameagain »

self_awareness wrote: post #542
4gotunameagain wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely. You cannot expect every consumer to be fully educated and aware of the consequences of their purchasing power. This is the role of legislation, educated experts creating policies so that you don't have to do business analysis before making a purchase. Would I pay 10x the price for tokens and be outcompeted by other companies, hoping that openAI will go out of business ? This is entirely unreali…

Was the business model of Uber ever a secret? What about AirBnb? Even if we argue that we can't require from every human being to understand what they're doing , I'd still argue that there are more people who perfectly understand it and don't care than people who have no idea how such a business operates. > You cannot expect every consumer to be fully educated and aware of the consequences of their purchasing power.…

No, we are not animals. But life has become so increasingly complex that is infeasible for the average person to be that invested in everything in order to have an educated opinion.

I do NOT want to have to research the business model of companies before I buy their products or services. I would like to outsource that to the government, and spend my time actually enjoying life.

Am I supposed to be invested in every change that happens around me ?

What if I am a baker, using chatGPT to experiment with recipes and develop them. Am I supposed to read about LLMs, tokens, and the silicon valley playbook ?

No. I should not have to do any of those things.

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#545

Post by leoedin »

zdragnar wrote: post #321
nonameiguess wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite 60, but it's always interesting to me that I feel quite the opposite of this. When I was 16, I didn't have a computer, didn't have a phone, had never used the Internet, but when I think of how life has changed, it's frankly not much. I woke up this morning, scooped my cats' litter boxes, took out some trash, made myself breakfast, ate that, read some news while eating, then lifted weights in my garage,…

Depends on where you live. My dad is almost 80, grew up in a very rural area, and when he was 16 they'd just gotten indoor plumbing. Up until he was 14, his school was a one-room school house with no heating other than a wood stove. If you were the first kid to arrive for the day, it was your job to get the fire going in winter months. Housework meant no laundry machine, no dishwasher, and possibly no vacuum cleaner.…

The early lives of my grandparents (in their 90s) are so fascinatingly different to that of mine. But even by the time my parents were growing up in the 60s, life was not so different in the west. The real differentiators in living standards - energy, household appliances and cooking, modes of transport - were more or less figured out then. By the time my parents were young adults in the early 80s, so many of the aspects of "modern life" had been figured out.

I look at the life my kids live, and it's not so different to my childhood. The toys are similar, their housing is similar. Probably the biggest difference is the availability of content on demand rather than much more fixed TV schedules.

The big difference in the last 30 years hasn't so much been in the kind of middle class life you can live, but the number of people who live that kind of life. In the 90s 40% of people globally were living in extreme poverty. Now its under 10%. The kinds of lives the middle class live in China and Vietnam are closer to those of Europeans today, when even 30 years ago most people in those countries were living much closer to the way your dad grew up.

I wonder if AI will result in a step change of living standards? Perhaps along with robotics we'll finally get to do nothing at all at home? I'm not convinced it'll be quick though. Maybe another 30 years.

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#546

Post by hirako2000 »

soraisdead wrote: post #429
ctoth wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has been years now of reading this same comment... Surely people can't keep typing it forever.

The difference is we're now in a world where Disney has pulled out of OpenAI without comming, and Sora was dropped off a ditch. In other words. The bubble has burst. You're just in denial.

My read is that the bubble as burst internally (angels, seeds, VCs, and even corporate got a grasp of the inflated promise). It will take while for the actual bubble to implode.

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#547

Post by snowwrestler »

Epa095 wrote: post #305
rurp wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enterprise sales will be the answer. Microsoft will have some story that convinces an exec eight levels up the org chart from the normal users that this is an essential product they need to overpay for. Given their existing relationshipsand immense sales team they'll probably have success.

That story is data governance. Corporate already have a data-agreement with MS, storing all their data there. Github copilot is covered by that, while a individual agreement with e.g. anthropic needs lawers involved.

But if the org already has an agreement with Anthropic (and many do) then why pay GitHub…

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#548

Post by self_awareness »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #544
self_awareness wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the business model of Uber ever a secret? What about AirBnb? Even if we argue that we can't require from every human being to understand what they're doing , I'd still argue that there are more people who perfectly understand it and don't care than people who have no idea how such a business operates. > You cannot expect every consumer to be fully educated and aware of the consequences of their purchasing power.…

No, we are not animals. But life has become so increasingly complex that is infeasible for the average person to be that invested in everything in order to have an educated opinion. I do NOT want to have to research the business model of companies before I buy their products or services. I would like to outsource that to the government, and spend my time actually enjoying life. Am I supposed to be invested in every c…

If you think you should not do these things, then you're a part of the problem.

If a company will advertise that they can take your oil and "dispose it legally", and then on their website they will openly write that they've found a loophole allowing them to store oil on the bottom of the ocean, then you say it's morally OK to use their services because it's legal?

If todays legislations are cargo and are being bought and sold based on the number of hired lobbyists, then you say it's OK to base our moral compas on that?

If you're a baker then you need to figure out how LLMs work at least to a level so that you could say that you've tried to figure it out, just as when I'm a software developer and I need to figure out how kidney stones work, because it might be in my own personal interest to know this.

Same thing is when buying stuff from Chinese vendors that ship cheap stuff to every corner of the world. You can buy their cheap products using your blind excuses, but then don't blame your local markets that for some unknown and unpredictable reason they closed operation.

We have brains for a reason, and we need to use this organ to fight our way through the complexity. This is the tax every one of us has to pay for being human and to live in a human world. If you want to have a brain, but decide not to use it, then I think you're just being lazy and entitled.

Re: GitHub Copilot is moving to usage-based billing

#550

Post by quietsegfault »

dannyw wrote: post #535
quietsegfault wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenRouter charges a 5% (?) fee for buying credits.

A very reasonable and fair markup that is clear and well articulated and not changing (at least so far) on a whim.

I think 5% is pretty solid, I am an OpenRouter user myself. Where I got screwed was enabling search on my requests, that jumped up my consumption a lot!
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