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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#541

Post by mynameisvlad »

JollySharp0 wrote: post #474
ccppurcell wrote: post #152

I believe they are abusing their customers but I think it's in poor taste to compare this to domestic violence.

The title is supposed to be provocative and hyperbolic. Much of what is provocative and hyperbolic could be considered to be in poor taste, that is the entire point. The guy is an ex-Darknet Vendor and regularly interacts still with people that build ransomware, hack the US government, sell online drugs and he is quite pleasant compared to these people.

> The guy is an ex-Darknet Vendor and regularly interacts still with people that build ransomware, hack the US government, sell online drugs and he is quite pleasant compared to these people.

It’s _almost_ as if we don’t use “people that build ransomware, hack the US government, sell online drugs” as a baseline for “pleasant”.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#542

Post by cratermoon »

surajrmal wrote: post #496
deaux wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those. All we need is enforcing laws that are already on the books. Antitrust laws. Break up big tech.

Anti trust laws do not generally apply to these situations. The government has had an appetite for antitrust, but the cases are far from a slam dunk. We need modern laws for modern problems.

Those laws used to apply, until the courts adopted Robert Bork's "consumer welfare standard" in the 80s, under Reaganism.

Analyzed well here: https://yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#543

Post by p_ing »

foldr wrote: post #250
Gigachad wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows used to exist in a competitive environment where they had to fight to remain relevant. For a long time now they have become complacent, no matter how many ads, product placements, and user abusive features they push, people will tolerate it. The situation has only just changed now that Apple and Valve are getting close to threatening the Windows monopoly.

Isn’t this backwards? Microsoft had way less competition on the desktop in the 90s than they do now.

On the desktop, I don't believe Microsoft has had significant competition for quite some time, likely back to Windows 95. In the server space, NT fought really hard against the UNIX giants of the time.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#545

Post by pinewurst »

rmah wrote: post #500
nicoburns wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the only way this gets better for consumers is if customer response more often insisted further roll backs than just the last straw if a company crosses the line. I think consumers have little power here. Our economic system fundamentally chooses to reward such behaviour. Until we change that, the power will always be with these kind of companies. Perhaps governments could levy punative fines in such situat…

"Our economic system fundamentally chooses to reward such behavior". This is true, but what people seem to fail to grasp is that rewarding such behavior == buying the product. If people simply didn't buy it, they wouldn't do it. It's really that simple. It may be hard to not buy, of course. The alternatives may be worse, there may be downsides to not buying, etc. But nothing else will really be effective.

So does North Korea's. This is Goodhart's law in action - the metastasis of PM culture rewarding "engagement".

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#547

Post by ConceptJunkie »

aaronmdjones wrote: post #434
abustamam wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah exactly. But I don't think my local state university, my wife's accounting firm, or my clients are going to ever switch from Windows, no matter how user hostile it becomes. One could dream.

When I went to university 17 years ago, all of the computers (except the Macs) had dual-boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.04. I'll give you five guesses which OS I never booted into.

That's a bit of a trick question, because if you'd booted into Windows, it would have eventually broken the dual-boot.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#548

Post by p_ing »

luckys wrote: post #330

Maybe it would be a good idea for Microsoft to split Windows into a version for business that supports all the cruft that has accumulated and is needed, and another version where they start from scratch. Something that is lightweight and respects the user. A man can dream.

You don't want that dream.

It's a whole new set of unknown bugs, security issues, lack of essential features, and app compat issues.

And the internals of NT are quite good and still largely modern. There's not a lot worth replacing (my only thought would be to rip out the file system filter driver model though I don't know what would replace it).

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#550

Post by j_w »

nicoburns wrote: post #510
rmah wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Our economic system fundamentally chooses to reward such behavior". This is true, but what people seem to fail to grasp is that rewarding such behavior == buying the product. If people simply didn't buy it, they wouldn't do it. It's really that simple. It may be hard to not buy, of course. The alternatives may be worse, there may be downsides to not buying, etc. But nothing else will really be effective.

Sure, but there's a power disparity here. I think the clearest example is smart TVs where there have been examples of consumers buying a TV, and then having ads retroactively added to the product a year later. There's not much a consumer could to avoid that. It's our regulatory environment allowing that.

You don't need a TV. If there are only smart TVs then simply don't purchase one.

Most consumers are unwilling to take an option that they perceive as inconveniencing them more than getting screwed by the company inconveniences them.

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