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Our commitment to Windows quality

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#541

Post by jiggawatts »

JohnFen wrote: post #444
kstrauser wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, at least on end-user devices as opposed to servers. If you make it possible to defer updates indefinitely, users will. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter how urgent or critical the update is, how bad the bug or vulnerability it patches is, how disastrous the consequences may be: they'll never, ever voluntarily apply them. If you're running a server, and willing to accept the risk of deferral because 1) you're in…

The real sin is combining security updates with feature updates. An argument can be made for enforced security updates(1). There is no good argument for forcing feature updates. Most security-only updates have a low risk of interfering with with the user or causing instability. Most feature updates have a high risk of doing so. (1) Although I think there should be some way of disabling even those, even if that way is…

The problem is that there's dozens of security updates every month, so even if you can skip feature updates, you'll have to reboot every Patch Tuesday anyway.

Even the Server Core edition, which has a much smaller "surface area" needs reboots almost every month.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#542

Post by nomel »

observationist wrote: post #370
nomel wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's pure irrationality. For the masses, it's pure practicality. My mother calls up geeksquad when she has a problem with windows. Who do you call when you have a problem with debian or ubuntu or arch setup to use kde or gnome or xfc using wayland or x11 with systemd or launchd or ... When her printer dies, does she go to the store and buy a new one, or does she get online to research what's compatible with her dis…

Maybe at one point in time; I've had objectively fewer issues with Linux than I had with Windows, and they only happened because I was doing nerd shit; in normal person average user mode, I haven't had any issues whatsoever. I installed linux on a laptop, and it's been an absolute joy to use. Network, printers, browsers, regular apps, all that stuff just works. Windows would reliably fuck up something important on a…

> Any AI. they ...

I think you're incredibly disconnected from how most people use computers, and how most people hate computers, because they're a means to an end that often just get in the way.

My mom isn't going to use AI, or go to a library and read books, or read documentation about who knows what, to fix her computer. She's going to do as most people do: if something goes wrong, you take it to a place to fix it. And, that's good. Computers should be boring things that help you get actual things done, with the OS being something that lets you open apps, just as all the subsystems in your car are just something that lets you push the gas and get somewhere.

> that it takes less work to maintain

What is "maintain"? This concept does not exist for the average user. What they see is that their system sometimes reboots, or takes a bit longer to turn on, for some sort of update. Who knows, it just does that sometimes. There's literally nothing beyond turning it on and off, and opening apps.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#543

Post by aksss »

There are two wolves that live inside the Windows brain - Apple and Linux (yes, two wolves).

On one hand, Windows has pressure to be something that "just works" like an iPad used to be - users can't screw it up. This is what enterprises want for the daily drivers of their massive user populations.

OTOH, Windows has pressure to be this highly customizable tool for savvy high-agency individuals. This is what we all want.

I can empathize with both needs, for sure, but it is a constant war. They're doing alright, considering.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#544

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

everdrive wrote: post #507
PaulKeeble wrote: post #469

Microsoft has spent over a decade swimming against their users interests at this point and during that time frame Linux has been improving its desktop and improving kernel performance. We are now at the point where Linux emulating Window's entire API space for games with worse drivers is dangerously close on performance with none of the privacy invasion and anti user features. Its pretty late in the game for them to…

I wish you were right, but Microsoft has a lot of money they can throw at the problem. Right now they don't care about Windows because their money comes from Azure. There are a few concerns here: if people _really_ moved away from Windows that would actually threaten the Azure ecosystem. Further, since Microsoft doesn't care to make a profit (with Windows) they could also just throw resources at Windows because it su…

Azure is only successful because of big enterprise. Consumers using or not using Windows makes no difference

Two factoids: Azure runs more Linux VMs than Windows VMs and AWS runs more Windows VMs than Azure.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#545

Post by ziml77 »

lm28469 wrote: post #252
dmos62 wrote: post #195

I'm somewhat surprised that Windows is still most of personal computers. In my eyes, it's fundamentally inferior to Linux, and its superficial superiority only comes from the ecosystem, which is to say adoption, not some inherent trait. But then, since Linux adoption didn't meaningfully change in the last 20 years, I'm forced to confront the fact that either I'm wrong about its fundamentals, or the market is able to…

I recently installed Fedora and holy shit it's still not production ready. During the initial setup you need to input your location, you have a choice between clicking on the map or typing the city, I don't remember which it is but one of them makes your system freeze, no way to get out other than a reboot. It's documented since Fedora 42, and was still there on Fedora 43 Every time my swap is full the entire system…

I recently installed Fedora with KDE and ran into behavior that would have confused me if it wasn't for the setup of my home. Because the problem I was having didn't manifest directly on my PC at all, but rather on my AV receiver! When I log in, the receiver turns on and sets its source to internet music. If my PC and receiver weren't close enough that I could hear the relays clicking, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to connect the two!

And of course when I look up the problem, the threads I land on don't point me to a thing to toggle in the UI. No, instead one of them directs me to create a config file for pipewire while another says the remove a specific package entirely. And they're not presented as a set of clear steps to follow, so good luck to your average person trying to fix the problem for themselves.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#546

Post by sankalpnarula »

hungryhobbit wrote: post #530
bigyabai wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal people can definitely install an OS. Last weekend I set aside time help a friend install CachyOS. They'd never used a terminal before and wanted some help. When I called them, they had already set it up and was playing Risk of Rain 2. They started streaming for me on the Discord Flatpak they installed from the app store.

Define normal. I would argue at least 75% of the US population has zero interest in learning how to install a new OS, let alone actually do so themselves. I say this as a decades-long Linux user (who has tried to evangelize it many times).

I would argue its close to 99% of the population. Technical people like us usually live in a bubble.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#548

Post by wang_li »

everdrive wrote: post #510
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows is not technically inferior to Linux. To the extent it has problems, it is mainly because of top-down anti-user behaviour mandated from corporate. But anyone capable of using Linux is capable of hacking out that BS and getting a generally superior experience. I use both literally side-by-side, two laptops with a KVM switch, and I still greatly prefer Windows for many reasons. Some reasons: Even as a low-level…

>Windows does a better job of managing memory/swaps Not sure I can buy that one

100% of OSes are better than Linux in this regard as long as overcommit is the default.

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#549

Post by anonymars »

bananalychee wrote: post #470
maxrecursion wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been daily driving fedora on my laptop for over a year now and haven't ran into a single issue. Not saying you're lying, but if you are having that many serious problems it might be a hardware issue. The OS is definitely stable and perfectly fine to use.

I've installed and extensively used at least half a dozen different flavors of Linux on about as many computers over the last decade or two. I don't think there's been a single time where I didn't have to work around hardware compatibility issues. Just today, I tried printing a few pages on Linux, and could not get a single one to come out. I'd queue a job, it would just disappear without anything happening. I'd unpl…

To be fair, in general "hell is empty, and all the printers are here"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQGtucrJ8hM

Re: Our commitment to Windows quality

#550

Post by GTP »

nine_k wrote: post #364
fsloth wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I want to have a computer with stable vendor supported OS so _I can do my stuff_ not tweak some os level configs. I _don’t_ want to spend my time playing an os systems programmer. OS is a _component_. Like the wifi driver. I think it’s great some people love developing wifi drivers but personally I just want network that-just-works because there are billion other cool things you can do with a computer. Simil…

> I want an OS that just works! This is exactly why modern Windows is problematic. MacOS is better. A right Linux distro (e.g. Fedora Silverblue) on right hardware (e.g. Thinkpad T series) also just works™; this basically the same kind of limitation as with MacOS. I wish they issued a Windows Rock Stable edition. Ancient as rocks (Win7 look, or maybe even WinXP look), every known bug fixed, every feature either suppo…

They would still need to develop new drivers for new hardware, which could cause issues. But yes, the situation you describe would be much more stable than Win11.
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