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How will OpenAI compete?

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Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#541

Post by theptip »

raincole wrote: post #536
theptip wrote: post #24

I think this take underestimates a couple points: 1) the opportunities for vertical integration are huge. Anthropic originally said they didn’t want to build IDEs, then realized the pivot to Claude Code was available to them. Likewise when one of these companies can gobble up Legal, Medical, etc why would they let companies like Harvey capture the margins? 2) oss models are 6-12 months behind the frontier because of…

After trying out Pi, I really don't know what 'vertical integration' Claude Code offers. And Pi isn't even the most popular alternative (I think it's OpenCode rn).

Take a look at Harvey. Pi / Opus alone cannot do what this product does.

You can think of this most simply as “model + scaffolding/skills = product”.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#542

Post by strangegecko »

basch wrote: post #523
strangegecko wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the web app, I see the "temporary chat" option but no toggle. It tells me temporary chats aren't used for model training. I thought I remembered that chats of Pro customers aren't used for that in any case. Hard to keep track of all this stuff. Ultimately, I think the crossover memory is useful, but I'd really like to know exactly what's in there and an ability to validate/adjust, not just on/off.

Model training is completely different than keeping a summary of chats on the side and injecting it as context. In my Gemini app, when k click new chat and click the filters button I have “Personalize Intelligence: Personalize chat when helpful.” It is on every time I click new chat. Maybe you need to enable it in settings first. I can disable it to have a clean chat without personal context, but preserve the chat hi…

I understand they are separate processes (compacting memories vs training new models), it just surprised me to read that my chats are used for training.

This is how it's presented: "Temporary chats Opens in a new window don't appear in Recent Chats Opens in a new window or Gemini Apps Activity Opens in a new window and aren't used to train models or personalize your experience."

I'm guessing you're maybe on iOS? I don't see these UI elements, not in the App on my phone nor in direct web access.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#543

Post by dawsmik »

consumer451 wrote: post #92

https://paulgraham.com/fundraising.html I would love to dunk on this or something, but the lesson is that it's all about distribution. Sama is really good at that, and also.. gotta give props for a lot of forward thinking like the orb, which now makes a lot of sense to me, as non-Apple/Google proof of personhood.

His competitors aren't too bad at it either.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#544

Post by daxfohl »

hobofan wrote: post #237
foo42 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're right, but is there any guarantee that there will continue to be institutions willing to spend the money to produce open models? I almost wonder if we need some sort of co-op for training and another for hosted inference

There doesn't seem to be any sign of Chinese companies stopping to produce open models to destroy the American moat. Given that a lot of the R&D in China is state sponsored that also seems to be a good pawn in US-China relations.

Eventually there'll be some kind of standard for licensing that's required of LLM runtimes, like software and digital media. Of course people will figure out workarounds, but just like pirated software, half of it will be infested with malware so most people will just pay for the license.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#545

Post by chasd00 »

d--b wrote: post #28

Worth noting that it’s not a winner-takes all situation. There’s definitely space for differentiation. Anthropic is in favor with developers and generally tech people, while OpenAi / Gemini are more commonly used by regular folks. And Grok, well, you know… We have yet to see who’s winning in the “creative space”, probably OpenAI. As these positionings cristallize, each company is likely going to double down on their…

> Worth noting that it’s not a winner-takes all situation.

I think it has to be for the financials to work out. Whoever is not the winner and takes all goes bankrupt.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#546

Post by DrScientist »

111111101101 wrote: post #521
DrScientist wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Chrome has about 75% market share across all platforms - probably 90% of those use the google default. As far as I'm aware OpenAI doesn't control any defaults for which AIChat service to use.

It took Google a decade before they released Chrome so OpenAI has plenty of time to have a Chrome moment. Maybe it'll be something that comes from the OpenClaw acqui-hires?

During that time - as was pointed out elsewhere - Google search was simply way better than the alternatives - embarrassingly so. It also paid the Mozilla foundation lots of money to be the default.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#547

Post by fullstick »

shubhamjain wrote: post #29

Everyone is actually underestimating stickiness. The near billion users OpenAI has is actually a real moat and might translate into decent chunk of revenue. My wife, for example, uses ChatGPT on a daily basis, but has found no reason to try anything else. There are no network effects for sure, but people have hundreds and thousands on conversation on these apps that can't be easily moved elsewhere. Understandable tha…

They are more easily moved than other data honestly. You can use chat gpt to build your own chatbot and then export all of your data from openai and load it into the new chatbot.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#548

Post by nouveaux »

wlesieutre wrote: post #530
adithyassekhar wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Easy for me to download a different app. Not easy for me to get everyone I communicate with to download a different app. I don't see the laziness lock in working nearly as effectively for something outside of messaging.

Coca Cola would like to have a word with you.

These models respond differently and have their own "personality". Even in coding, there are people who swear by one model over the other. I know engineers who just stick with Claude and could not care to try Codex. For them, if it's not broken, why fix it?

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#549

Post by nozzlegear »

ndiddy wrote: post #431
nozzlegear wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata point: I canceled my ChatGPT pro subscription last year over some shitty thing Altman did at OpenAI and easily moved over to Claude. The only thing I took with me was the system prompt or whatever it's called, I couldn't care less about my conversation history. I'm planning to do the same thing with my Claude subscription if Anthropic kowtows to the Pentagon. These services are not sticky at all IMO.

Anthropic already decided to do business with the "killing people" department of the government. I think the battle was lost there, rather than whether or not they cross a line in the sand they drew to act as if they're the ethical AI company despite making products that are used to kill people. I'm sure the result of this battle will be some compromise that allows the Pentagon to get whatever they want while offerin…

Yes, I just caught up on all the Anthropic x Pentagon news this morning. I've canceled my subscription and let them know why in the feedback. It's too bad because I liked the Claude models, but I can easily swap the Claude app out with DuckDuckGo and use one of the open models my DDG subscription supports.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#550

Post by DrScientist »

adithyassekhar wrote: post #515
DrScientist wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry - being dim - I don't get that.

There's this thing called power of defaults. If a setting is default, if an app is presented on the front they'll continue to use it as it is. The crowd here always overestimates how competent/interested the general public are in these things. 99.9% (source: my life) of users never even open the second level of the settings app. 99% don't even open the settings app. They don't know how much they can even change or ca…

Sure defaults are extremely powerful - but that's rather my point - where is the default that OpenAI controls?

Google, Apple, Samsung, Microsoft ( and various Chinese companies ) etc are largely are in control of defaults - via devices and browsers.

Perhaps in Github copilot ( via MS ) - but software developers are not typical consumers.

Perhaps Sam and johnnies new assistant thing will transform the market - but until that ships it's vapour ware.

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