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Keep Android Open

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Re: Keep Android Open

#541

Post by noughtnaut »

ipdashc wrote: post #317
cwillu wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't though, because there's a ecosystem of banking/insurance/whatever apps that have bought into the android/iphone lockdown mindsete that people will simply be locked out of. Open alternatives can grow when there is a viable means of slow growth, and cutting off the oxygen to such things is the implicit intent.

> banking/insurance/whatever apps I know banking apps are the typical example, but I've always wondered why. I use my bank's app maybe once or twice a year when I need to Zelle someone, which I only need to do when they don't have Venmo. (Unless we consider Venmo a banking app.) I only have one bank's app installed, the rest of my banks I only interact with over their website, on desktop. As for insurance, I've never…

Fair point - but then take national eID apps instead.

Take Denmark, for example: most banking apps use eID for login, so that problem translates 1:1. But other apps who do the same include the national school communications platform (which is pretty much mandatory for a huge chunk of the adult population, who need to look at it almost daily). Also: social security card (including health portal/doctor booking/comms), driver's license, bus pass, parking app, used-stuff-marketplace, ... eID is _everywhere_ because it's a good idea.

Sure, all of this can be done on a computer. If you're near one. Or you can have separate and physical cards, like we used to have. That still works, mostly: more and more services (eg. bus pass) are going digital-only.

Really, what we need is a top-down embrace of open-source-based platforms as being _as_ (or more) secure than the established tech giants. From governments down, organisations _should_ move away from locked-down (foreign) commercial interests.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Re: Keep Android Open

#542

Post by llbbdd »

heavyset_go wrote: post #495
llbbdd wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the screen size, it's the demographic shift. By 2000, only half of U.S. households had a shared living room PC, mostly for work and/or games. Everybody having a phone in their pocket later was a change that we did very much have to account for. Non-technical people can be scammed very easily into life-ruining mistakes with a little social engineering and a little bit of access to powerful tools already on th…

And yet the Play Store and App Store are the largest vectors of scams and malware out there, to the tune of billions of dollars a year. We should be prioritizing securing our systems so that they run only what we want them to run, instead of putting all of that trust in gatekeepers who make money when they let you get scammed.

They are the largest vector of scams and malware because they've centralized it and it's hard to deliver malware and scams otherwise. That malevolence will always happen and centralizing it ensures a single avenue that can be controlled and measured and importantly sued when they fuck up. I can't sue f-droid when they allow malware on my device, that's one of many reasons why I don't use it, that's why nobody uses it in real life. Every day on HN I see people who seem to unironically think "enshittification" is a real term normal people use, a generally understood term by people who don't follow links to Corey Feldman's blog.

HN tends to forget that linux is not a target for general malware because nobody gives a single fuck about linux as a real malware target because they're smart, and therefore not the target of most scams. HN has the cute attitude that technology is king and that as long as you inspect it and open source it and care enough and have full control, then that's enough. Often the same people ignoring that AI has made it way easier to fuck stupid people over with no effort at all.

I don't not want unlimited control over the hardware that I buy from vendors like Google but I don't know yet of any better way to keep stupid people from kneecapping themselves other than introducing harder and harder quizzes. If you think it's an advantage that third party vendors like f-droid are absolved of responsibility then you deserve and own the fault when you get hacked and fucked over. Most people don't want that. They have real life to deal with. In real life you can kill people or sue them and it's harder to kill people over the internet.

Re: Keep Android Open

#543

Post by naniwaduni »

xprnio wrote: post #353
Aerroon wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2FA is a requirement in Europe. I can't log into my bank account without my phone being able to run the app.

But 2FA is moot if it’s the same device as your bank app, is it not?

Nearly all the security value of 1fa is that it keeps your users from picking the own passwords.

Re: Keep Android Open

#544

Post by rcbdev »

afh1 wrote: post #133
ruuda wrote: post #8

I contacted the EU DMA team about my concerns and got a real reply within 24 hours. Not just an automated message, it looked like a real human read my message and wrote a reply. I'd urge other EU citizens to do the same.

[flagged]

I trust my EU bureaucrats much more than I'd trust the public service crooks in the White House.

Re: Keep Android Open

#545

Post by gethly »

keeda wrote: post #420
gethly wrote: post #142

Just like Microsoft screwed up Windows, Google will screw up Android and people will move to Linux on PCs and some open version of Android, or Harmony, or whatever new mobile system comes up, on their phones. Nothing lasts for ever. The sooner you make the switch, the better off you will be.

I wouldn't hold my breath: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/01/windows-11-has-hit-1... https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/

On desktop, unknown OS cannot be anything else but Linux, so that's 20% altogether(16%+4%). But that does not matter. The shift has started last year when W10 support ended and due to how bad W11 is and it is just getting stronger and stronger. Watch increase in YT videos about moving from Windows to Linux, or social networks in general. You cannot miss it. I've been on windows since 95, before that DOS. So that is three decades of being a loyal customer, so to speak. Even though I tried Linux in the past, Windows just works so I had no reason to switch.

With W11, that is not the case. Therefore, it becomes inevitable. Worth mentioning is that companies, governments and whole countries are ditching Microsoft altogether - for various reasons(some are geopolitical, due to sanctions and tariffs, others are technical).

Lenovo, Dell and HP are slowly ditching W11 as well in favour of linux. If you look up definitions of malware and spyware, windows 11 falls into both of them. It's that bad. So again, I'm not a linux fanboy by any stretch of imagination, but the writing is not just on the wall, we've passed the point of no return. Or rather, Microsoft has.

Now that linux supports 95% of games, there is little holding people back as gaming was always the biggest hurdle when it came to linux. And Adobe, too, is no longer what keeps people stuck on Windows - either because they ditched it due to their horrible pricing practices, or because there are now solid alternatives.

Of course many people will switch to mac as well. But windows in general, i think, is done. It had a good run for few decades, but they dropped the ball so hard that there is no going back or fixing it with w12.

Re: Keep Android Open

#546

Post by vhanda »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #503
bigyabai wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine your ISP having total control over your desktop computer. Or killing a website, or program, because the ISP doesn't like it. It's not very hard to imagine? Most people don't expect that level of control anymore; their desktop just updates with whatever corporate slopware is pushed out seasonally. Websites come-and-go. It's not a hugely motivating rally-cry for average person. > We need to kill Android. And…

> just force Google to How exactly are you going to force Google to do something?

They way we usually do, by restricting their access to EU markets unless they comply and/or fine them, and/or threats about nationalizing the "EU Google".

What is the US going to do, apply more tariffs?

Re: Keep Android Open

#547

Post by hunter2_ »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #104
mturilin wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it “yours”? You paid for it but Google still has the control. I understand that you prefers things to be different (as do I) but the reality is that we don’t have control over devices we paid for.

> What makes it “yours”? You answered the question here: > You paid for it If you paid for hardware, legally that makes it yours. > Google still has the control Therein lies the problem. Google should not exercise such control over devices which are yours, not theirs.

I think it's reasonable for Google to control what happens in their version of Android (which can be installed by default) but it's not reasonable for Google to lock the bootloader (preventing installation of a non-Google OS).

Perhaps this is why Google hardware doesn't have locked bootloaders; Samsung et al can get away with locked bootloaders since it's not Google forcing the consumer in that case.

Whether the bootloader is or isn't locked should be very conspicuous before purchase, for consumer protection.

Re: Keep Android Open

#548

Post by fsflover »

notorandit wrote: post #9

We ("you") have no power to keep android open. Unfortunately it is in the hands of a company that is building it for profit, in a way or the other. It's been our choice to drink this glass of wishful thinking while giving that company a solid dominant position in the market. We ("you") can only make choices that will overturn that trend. Fully opensource hardware with fully opensource software? Maybe, but also this i…

> Fully opensource hardware with fully opensource software? Maybe, but also this is wishful thinking.

My smartphone runs an FSF-endorsed OS, PureOS. This is reality. It's not open hardware, but it's a long way from Android in the right direction. You can also get a Precursor, which is open hardware.

Re: Keep Android Open

#549

Post by notpushkin »

4nonverbal-alit wrote: post #419
bpye wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It "works" but it is significantly less useful. Notification mirroring doesn't work, you can't read/respond to text messages, it can't reliably run in the background. These are all due to limitations imposed by Apple.

Regarding notifications, both iOS and android doesn't support reading and responding to text messages. The feature works on android because of a workaround: apps create a global notification listener and they can also interact with notification - read UI contents and respond. I know it's still better than not having a workaround at all like in iOS. But just pointing out that Google probably never meant to let others…

This is incorrect – KDE Connect requests the SMS permission on Android. It does get access to the past messages.

Re: Keep Android Open

#550

Post by mavamaarten »

fragmede wrote: post #500
greatgib wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even restricting the mitigation to "students and hobbyists" is bad. I should have the right to have parents, friends or anyone use a "free" store that is not under control of Google if the user and app developer wish so. But also, somehow there should be something done to avoid the monopoly forcing to use the Google services. Like major institutions like bank, gov and co being forced to provide alternatives like a we…

But unfortunately, it turns out that some people you interact with aren't actually your friend. That guy that seems totally legit and just wants your sister to install his fun little game/app that he wrote is actually trying to get her to install an app that's going to track your location and read all your messages and copy all your photos. To keep her safe from the "actually" bad people, of course.

So, what you're saying is that Google should work on better privacy controls. Right? Right???
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