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TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

nytimes.com

541–550 of 568 posts

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#541

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Short form video has been a total break from previous media and social media consumption patterns. Personally I would support a ban on algorithmic endless short form video. It's purely toxic and bad for humanity

Any good research papers on the impact of short form video on the human brain? This is a major cause for the attention crisis we're facing IMO.

what would you rather people pay attention to?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#542
post #396

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Everything's on a spectrum, but there's a point where you're so far along on the spectrum that it makes sense to call it something else. See, "quantity has a quality of its own". Sometimes you have to leave the theoretical view aside and just look out the window. How are people using this? Is it hurting them? What can we do about it? I don't like blanket bans, but putting TikTok and, say, a publishing company marketi…

I don't know man. It all reminds me very much of people trying to ban rock n roll back in the day.

I hear you, and that's where my mind goes first on this issue too.

But with social media, many of the people most into it, when asked, will say they wish it didn't exist.

A lot of kids feel they have to be on it, but wish it didn't exist.

People sound and behave more like actual drug addicts than just mere fans of a medium around social media.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there are grey areas for gambling that have been settled on, like how video game "loot boxes" were recently reconsidered as gambling in some places (besides just being stupid).

You know it's stupid because you grew up immersed in the message that gambling is bad. Humans don't know that innately. The target audience for these platforms doesn't know it yet. The target audience is still growing up, immersed in whatever message the platform wants to send.

I meant that digital collectibles are stupid

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of absolutism is unhelpful. At every point on the spectrum between "a good app that people choose to spend time on because it's valuable to them" and "heroin marketed to preteens in schools" there is no clear line or delineation between addictive abuse and autonomy. But we still don't let liquor stores sell to kids. We still criminalize a lot of drug use. And while there are tons of different opinions about…

Drugs and alcohol are explicit substances with an explicit definition.

Gambling is much harder to define, but also widely proscribed with popular support for most proscriptions.

(And the sibling commenter's also right, that there's a larger subjective/gray area than you might think when it comes to defining drugs/alcohol for purposes of law).

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not because EU countries want people to make their own decisions, it's because not so many people in EU think alcohol is bad for kids.

And that's because they're much more responsible with alcohol. Americans get introduced to alcohol as a rebellion from oppression the moment they go to college. Germans have it with dinner with their parents sometimes when they're 12. It's like how Facebook got boring when your parents were on it.

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Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not because EU countries want people to make their own decisions, it's because not so many people in EU think alcohol is bad for kids.

And that's because they're much more responsible with alcohol. Americans get introduced to alcohol as a rebellion from oppression the moment they go to college. Germans have it with dinner with their parents sometimes when they're 12. It's like how Facebook got boring when your parents were on it.

I don't get that impression from Europeans. Also I've had wine at home since I was 12, but still ended up getting completely wasted the first time I had alcohol in college. Pretty sure anyone who's interested in that will do it at some point, and that's the only way to outgrow it.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#548
post #220

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That's not wrong, but it's a selective take. The entire economy operates like an addiction machine, using proven psychological techniques to modify individual and collective behaviours and beliefs. It's not just social media. It's gaming, ad tech, marketing, PR, religion, entertainment, the physical design of malls and stores... And many many more. The difference with social media is that the sharp end is automated a…

Every country in the world already does tons of intervention combatting addiction. There are already bans and restrictions on gambling, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes etc… Wether we consider social media addiction to be harmful and how to do it is a good question to be asked, but intervention into harmful addiction is generally uncontroversial.

Note that gambling is currently the only recognized non-substance-related addiction in the DSM-5. As a society we speak of things like 'tiktok addiction', 'gaming addiction', 'food addiction' and 'porn addiction' but none of these are real recognized disorders. That is not to say that certain behaviors cannot be maladaptive and hard to quit, but this is not enough to make something an addiction - we don't call hypochondria a 'cleaning addiction' even though it might look like one.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufactured consent, planned economies, controlled economies, imbalance of wealth or power, tariffs, subsidies, tax breaks, lobbying, ad networks, tracking, algorithmic content delivery, AI generation, asymmetric access to information, social effects, requirements to live despite inaccessible resources for basic needs, government control, private property but no free land available, and international trade laws, are…

Manufactured consent as a notion always felt like projection to me because of its advocates. As it was a notion pushed by people who insist they know "the interests" of people who are "voting wrong". All the while disregarding the fact that if we could rely on others knowing the interests of others better than others then aristocracy would be a superior system as the nobles being more educated would know the interest…

So do you believe that propaganda doesn't exist, or doesn't work, or that only ever accurately shows the truth? Because as I see it you must believe that people cannot be misled by propaganda to deny the possibility of manufactured consent.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it's stupid because you grew up immersed in the message that gambling is bad. Humans don't know that innately. The target audience for these platforms doesn't know it yet. The target audience is still growing up, immersed in whatever message the platform wants to send.

I meant that digital collectibles are stupid

Like Pokémon?
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