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Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

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Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#541

Post by kakacik »

unglaublich wrote: post #199
princevegeta89 wrote: post #3

No surprises. No matter how we look at it, EVs are much friendlier and safer to the environment. Some people argue the source of electricty can be contested against because that involves fossil fuel burning again, but in today's world we are rapidly moving away from it and towards nuclear/hydel/wind methods for generating power. I hope ICE cars completely become a thing of the past in the next couple of decades to co…

Even if the electricity source would burn similar fuel, just the fact that you don't pullote right in the middle of population centers makes a huge difference. In reality, it's not only that, but _also_ that they use cleaner methods of energy production.

This is only the issue if you are a city dweller and want to spend your whole life there. For rural folks this is actually best possible situation.

The pollution always goes somewhere, and its not like we have large swaths of useless places that we can pollute without consequences.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#542

Post by formerly_proven »

drzaiusx11 wrote: post #213
pvab3 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a lot of people have custom exhausts, particularly catback systems that don't affect emissions. A lot of people are definitely not rolling coal.

I live in a progressive state and unfortunately encounter "coal rolling" regularly. I also assume that's the point. Someone has to "own all the libs" as it were However, I do agree that there aren't enough folks "rolling coal" in aggregate to really move any needles on planet-scale environmental impacts though. Just VERY unpleasant to be caught behind.

Conservatives seem to be largely unaware that most libs already have an owner and don't need any further owning.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#543

Post by BeetleB »

hvb2 wrote: post #530
raydev wrote: post #526

imo The final hurdle for mass adoption is solving the refueling planning problem. I was in the market for a new car in 2024. Thought seriously about a few electric options but opted for another ICE vehicle because 2025/2026 are years of many road trips, and the issue that kept coming up for me was "can I just pull off any random highway and refill my car in a few minutes?" Unfortunately for the environment I guess, I…

Not sure what age your kids are, but if they're below 10 I can guarantee you that your kids will be slowing you down, bit the car. Kids need to use the bathroom would be filling up the battery well over 25% if it wasn't almost full. The one thing people that have never owned an EV seem to miss is the benefits that you get to experience every day. No gearbox, so seamless acceleration. No maintenance on, spark plugs, t…

The thing with young kids is they tend not to be good at timing restroom breaks with the availability of charging. By the time they tell you, you need to stop at the nearest gas station - they can't wait for you to drive 20 miles to the next charging station.

> No maintenance on, spark plugs, timing belts, gearbox. No oil changes. A quieter ride, especially nice on a road trip.

I'm thinking of getting an EV, so I'll see how much I like this. I can say that this is pretty much not a hassle for me with my ICE car - over the last 20+ years. But then I tend to buy reliable cars and didn't fall for the manufactured "3 months or 3000 miles" rule.

I keep track of all my costs. I average about $500 a year in maintenance (includes tires, oil changes, brakes, etc). I just checked with the insurance company - the increase in my annual premiums for the EV car I'm looking at is $400 more than if I got an equivalent ICE car. And one still needs to change tires, etc on an EV. So the repair/maintenance savings aren't there.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#544

Post by heresie-dabord »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #164
kemiller wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you power a typical EV from 100% coal, it pencils out as about equivalent to a late model Prius. And any improvements in the energy mix take it further.

I don't think many people really understand how awful automobile-scale internal combustion engines are at efficiency. The only reason they work at all is thanks to the absurd energy density of the fuels they burn.

8.9 kWh / litre of petrol [1]

But more than 60% of that is lost as heat. The inefficiency increases in colder temperatures.

[1] _ https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/transp...

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#545

Post by hvb2 »

dijit wrote: post #534
hvb2 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 7000 to 8000 euros to replace a battery of a 80 to 100k car? It depends on how many miles it has driven and how much other maintenance the car has had. It's a big expense but a battery dying is probably comparable to a timing belt breaking, those aren't cheap either and thats not even for luxury cars...

where did you get that number? parts and labour is $15,000 to $22,000 from all sources I can find. Heres one: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/tesla-battery-replace...

The article linked speaks of 70 to 80k yuan, which I then turned into euros

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#546

Post by bluGill »

gpm wrote: post #540
bluGill wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average car is 12 years old (us, but other countries are similar). so gas stations are likely still common in 20 years. in 10 years new gas stations will be built a lot less often, but nobody will close an existing one that they wouldn't close anyway.

If GP's prediction that no one is buying ICE cars 5-10 years from now, and the average car is 12 years old, by 20 years from now we're down to less than half the current ICE fleet by natural replacement. But the replacement isn't random. Rather people who drive the most all already replaced their vehicles to minimize costs. Gas stations would, under just natural replacement, be down well below 50% of their former sal…

Excetpt there will be a long tail of stations that wouldn't instal pumps today - but since they already have them they will keep selling gas so long as everything passes inspections.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#547

Post by hvb2 »

BeetleB wrote: post #543
hvb2 wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what age your kids are, but if they're below 10 I can guarantee you that your kids will be slowing you down, bit the car. Kids need to use the bathroom would be filling up the battery well over 25% if it wasn't almost full. The one thing people that have never owned an EV seem to miss is the benefits that you get to experience every day. No gearbox, so seamless acceleration. No maintenance on, spark plugs, t…

The thing with young kids is they tend not to be good at timing restroom breaks with the availability of charging. By the time they tell you, you need to stop at the nearest gas station - they can't wait for you to drive 20 miles to the next charging station. > No maintenance on, spark plugs, timing belts, gearbox. No oil changes. A quieter ride, especially nice on a road trip. I'm thinking of getting an EV, so I'll…

The insurance part will settle out over time as they get more data I would imagine.

500$ a year is very little for any car, but I opened a Nissan leaf for 8 years and spent less that 2K, of which 1K was for the AC

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#548

Post by bluGill »

vel0city wrote: post #503
bluGill wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It varies. As one station dies that temborarly strengthens the others on the same corner. Ev charging on highways will remain big business, but small rural town that support a few gas stations will support no ev charger because everyone charges at home.

I do largely agree with this. Those small and more remote rural towns are also likely some of the last places to highly electrify due to the particular needs of those kinds of lifestyles. You're far more likely to be towing a horse trailer if you live in such a place, which is something EVs will probably struggle with for a long while.

farmers already own their own gas station on the farm. They have on road diesel forethe trucks, off road diesel for the tractors (no road tax, otherwise the same - DOTs check this so nobody cheat), and gasoline for cars that never go to town (also for lawn mowers). Of course distance from town matters, if you live near town you won't have your own, but the farther town is the more useful your own personal supply is.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#549

Post by manmal »

hvb2 wrote: post #530
raydev wrote: post #526

imo The final hurdle for mass adoption is solving the refueling planning problem. I was in the market for a new car in 2024. Thought seriously about a few electric options but opted for another ICE vehicle because 2025/2026 are years of many road trips, and the issue that kept coming up for me was "can I just pull off any random highway and refill my car in a few minutes?" Unfortunately for the environment I guess, I…

Not sure what age your kids are, but if they're below 10 I can guarantee you that your kids will be slowing you down, bit the car. Kids need to use the bathroom would be filling up the battery well over 25% if it wasn't almost full. The one thing people that have never owned an EV seem to miss is the benefits that you get to experience every day. No gearbox, so seamless acceleration. No maintenance on, spark plugs, t…

Same trip, w/ the kids, took 10h with an Ioniq and 6h with a diesel.

Re: Adoption of EVs tied to real-world reductions in air pollution: study

#550

Post by dijit »

hvb2 wrote: post #545
dijit wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

where did you get that number? parts and labour is $15,000 to $22,000 from all sources I can find. Heres one: https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/tesla-battery-replace...

The article linked speaks of 70 to 80k yuan, which I then turned into euros

for parts only, in china

but, sure, fair enough.

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