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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#541

Post by aweiland »

mullingitover wrote: post #155
9JollyOtter wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for quite a number of brands of vehicles. Also I don't understand what a modern Porsche is. Porsche to me was always a Rear Engined, (normally) RWD sports car i.e. the 911. I am personally on the look for a 944 (believe it or not they are cheaper than JDM cars of a similar vintage). When I see a Porsche SUV, to me that isn't a Porsche. It looks like any other SUV on the road with Porsche badge on it. It…

That article throws out the wild claim “The news comes at a time when EV demand is on the decline across the car world.” EV sales increased around 20% last year.

I see this claim made all over the place in the media, and never made with evidence.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#542

Post by storus »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

EU car manufacturers decided that cheaper-to-make electric cars must be sold as luxury vehicles and failed to achieve economies of scale China did with their underwhelming initial models they kept improving relentlessly every year.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#543

Post by pjc50 »

cbeach wrote: post #462
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. This is dangerous, geo-politically, should China ever go to war with the West in any capacity. In WW2, America's car factories gave it a decisive advantage, as part of the war machine. Ford’s Willow Run plant produced one B-24 bomber every ~63 minutes at peak output. General Motors built tanks, aircraft engines, trucks. Chrysler: tanks and ar…

https://www.ft.com/content/6474a1a9-4a88-4f76-9685-f8ccb080d... : "Renault to team up with French defence group to make drones for Ukraine"

I don't think the deindustrialization narrative is quite as bad as the doomers would have it, although it's notable that both sides in the Ukraine war depend on Chinese drone electronics.

(we've also forgotten the nuclear war narrative of the 80s: it's irrelevant if you can build a bomber in 63 minutes if it only takes the ballistic missiles 43 minutes from launch to arrival, at which point the war or at least industrial society is over)

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#544

Post by bluGill »

willvarfar wrote: post #283
lern_too_spel wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only getting started. Do you think Europe is going to use American networking equipment when America has shown that it will use its military against Europe? American grid technology?

And what about all those huge pending orders for F35 in ... Denmark and Canada? Etc.

There are no other options. The F35 is the only gen5 fighter you can buy (Russia has one, but they can't make it and in any case Russia is invading Europe now and so not an option) , and as such it is going to be better than anything else you can get. Plus the cost of the F35 is similar or less than your other options.

The real question is what do those countries do when they have other options.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#545

Post by a456463 »

rswail wrote: post #290

The US/EU/JP manufacturers are half-pregnant, they have engine and other mechanical production plants that will become stranded assets as BEVs don't need engines, gearboxes or the other hydraulic/cooling etc infrastructure that an ICE vehicle needs. Electric motors are essentially maintenance free over the life of a BEV, same for the batteries. The maintenance is for brake pads/rotors, but regen braking also avoids t…

You wish. These EV get charged $15k more compared what they used to be with their gas models with crap touch screens, stupid ass voice controls: things that when broken are hard to repair and costly, the battery, the range. Keep dreaming

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#546

Post by NetMageSCW »

melenaboija wrote: post #166
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Car enthusiasts never disappear, but they will be a small part of the market just like always.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#547

Post by dv_dt »

brightball wrote: post #453
joe_mamba wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy. Not true. China let Tesla set up shop in the backyard of their domestic EV industry, WITHOUT the mandatory by law 51% Chinese ownership, precisely so Tesla would light a fire under the asses of domestic players, forcing them to compete better with what was at the time, the pinnacle EV brand. China is no longer beati…

Yep, it’s amazing how much knowledge and capability a country can develop when it has most of the worlds manufacturing.

They say history repeats itself, and this EV market shift is a repeat. A remarkable past parallel occurred with US industrial quality experts and statisticians being ignored by the US auto industry in the 1970s, then being taken seriously by the Japanese auto makers who then sling shotted themselves past US auto quality in the 80s to probably 2010ish?

In this round of history repeating, 2020s US car maker management was also actively anti-collaboration and anti-expert within it's own domain. You can see commentary by Sandy Munro on US companies ignoring design and production efficiency details - outsourcing too much of their own supply chain, and being resistant to integration improvements. And similar occurrences of Chinese auto companies hiring US auto production experts who were being ignored by the US auto industry, then going on to to improve fit, finish and quality, while building organizations unafraid of vertical integration.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#548

Post by bluGill »

wiseowise wrote: post #507
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I'm a "car enthusiast" and even I understand that holding onto ICE is like holding onto horses because cowboys look cool. It is a distilled macho culture like those old Marlboro ads.

I have a lot of ICEs - they are collectors items I keep in the shed unless there is a parade. My EVs are the daily drivers, not as fun, but more practical.

The above isn't quite true - there are some "daily" ICEs yet because EVs aren't in all niches and I don't replace things instantly even if they were. The idea is the future that is coming closer and closer to reality.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#549

Post by slowmotiony »

temp8830 wrote: post #26
rr808 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> china makes cars better than most luxury brands More like China makes cheaper cars which is enough for most people.

Google "Zeekr 9X" and then come back here if you still feel this way.

Can I also rip the steering wheel right off the car if I use a bit too much force, like in the Omodas?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vY9HegbOd9c

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#550

Post by sehansen »

vee-kay wrote: post #478
jansper39 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars are far more reliable than old 'analogue' cars - primarily because of the integrated electronics. ECUs can detect when engines are running rich or lean, knocking or 100 other edge cases and adjust accordingly. Switch to an EV and it's even simpler, you can get away with a motor, battery, BMS and inverter and you can get just about any soapbox to move.

When your ICE vehicle breaks down on the highway, you can get it towed and repaired at any half-decent car mechanic. If you don't like his cost quote or his service/repairs, you can get your car taken elsewhere (usually the mechanic can get it running in a short while, unless it is a major breakage problem) for a second opinion or service/repairs. When your EV breaks down, you won't even bother to get it towed, becau…

That has nothing to to with EVs per se, as many modern ICE cars are just as impossible to repair for non-affiliated repair shops. And some EVs, e.g. the Nissan Leaf, are quite easy to work on for independent shops.
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