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Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

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Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#541

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Not as depressing as if it was coal power stations and coalmines blighting the landscape.

China is building more coal plants right now than the entire world combined so don’t worry they have those too.

And yet their coal usage has plateaued for the last few years, and actually likely started to decline in 25.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#542
post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say 10% of the homes in my estate in Derbyshire have rooftop solar. We haven't gone for it yet because I still think the cost is too high. It might work out when electricity gets even more expensive.

Is there any truth to the climate sceptic claim that solar in the UK can’t generate useful power with our bad weather and cloud cover? I always said that it’s not like Germany has better weather but they have tons of solar. However it would be great to have an answer from the UK.

It definitely generates useful amounts of power, especially in the summer. The problem is that we still need gas plant, and the distribution infrastructure ready for the rest of the year when it isn't so effective.

In the last year, 2.11% or 308 MWh of our electricity came from solar: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/GB/12mo/monthly

By way of comparison, that same source shows Germany generating 2.16% (527 MWh) of its electricity from solar so its pretty similar: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/DE/12mo/monthly

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#543
post #518

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> We are taking a break now, but starting 2029 America will resume having its pick of the best. Don't count on it. Some people may be willing to uproot their lives and move continent in the hope that 4 years later you won't re-elect another one like Trump, but it won't be as many as before. Heck, there was a brief window where I had the opportunity to migrate to the USA, but just the US electing Trump the first time…

I think people generally vastly underestimate the negative effect of "nativism"/anti-immigration rethoric on desirable foreign workers. Even if those desirable foreigners are completely unaffected by actual policy. I personally know at least two highly qualified STEM workers that went back to Europe after Brexit/Trump2 and from what I can tell this was at least 70% pure "spite" (instead of being affected by actual an…

Indeed.

I used to live in Cambridge. Only one person I knew there was pro-Brexit, call him C. In the run-up to the referendum, I'd already told C I was looking to move out of the UK due to the entirely native political choices of the UK. The domestic political nonsense was necessarily only going to get less constrained by a policy decision (Brexit) specifically about getting less constrained.

One of my last memories of C was that a group of us were in a local pub discussing it, one said they were worried Brexit would make Cambridge smaller. C shouted "Good!".

Given my plans, obviously when C shouted "Good!" at the idea of Cambridge shrinking, I was shocked, took it somewhat personally. Then the referendum came, and I was both angry with him and far too busy, so I stopped talking to C entirely.

Other people report that C was very confused by this, did not understand at all.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#544
post #422

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You’re not sure? In a word: Greed. In two words: Crony Capitalism. The spend on “non-renewable“ energy is significant to the domestic economy. In 2023 (most recent year I could find), consumer spend on energy in the US was $1.6T ( https://css.umich.edu/publications/factsheets/energy/us-ener... ) with at least 82% of that being fossil fuels - the remainder being “renewables” and nuclear energy ( https://www.eia.gov/to…

That was all true long before 2008 so doesn't explain why the Republican platform changed nearly 180 degrees on this between 2008 and 2012.

Citizens United legalized bribery. Now the politicians could make real money by ignoring the public.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#545

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In case you haven't noticed, it's the non-thinkers of all generations who willingly bury their head in the sand. Most people don't normally think it's the boomers in particular unless their powers of observation are somewhat limited. Which is understandable, you don't reach maturity overnight. Edit: not my downvote btw

I'm not disagreeing with you so much but > Most people don't normally think it's the boomers in particular Interesting because most of the critiques, especially to electric cars come from boomers. Also to Solar and Wind, the kind of silly criticism like "Why are we filling our barely-arable lands with Solar?!" Now we'll watch how the European car manufacturers get swallowed by Chinese electrical manufacturers.

I think what you're seeing is the criticism from those in the older generartions who are well-published and media savvy with decades more experience than average in that regard. Some of the old-timers can be expected to be better connected when it comes to available incentives too.

Not unlike anybody else who gets more attention from pointing out any possible controversy rather than more mundane non-critical analysis.

But not so much in the prevailing common sense of the actual baby boomers who for the most part are older and more ambivalent about these energy technology milestones and take them in stride pretty easily along with all the other progress over the decades they have seen.

I am with far more people over 70 all the time who wish they could afford a Tesla or some extensive solar panels than those who have negative feelings about it.

But you've also got negative "influencers" in older generations trying to appeal specifically to those who lived through similar (outdated or nearly forgotten) experiences, especially when the target demographic is known to be one that votes more often than average.

Looks to me like it's even more selected younger voices among those who stand to gain so much more over an upcoming lifetime without any upset from alternative energy that are doing more actual complaining. Like the incentive coming from somewhere is overwhelming, I can't deny.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#546
post #505

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> my worry is can renewables be quickly brought online to power industry / power hungry Data Centers etc at a reasonable cost I mean, clearly the answer is yes. The problem is political, not economic.

Could you spell out the “clearly yes” part of this? I’d love it to be true but even more than that I’d like to have an answer to the climate sceptics.

We're commenting on an article that discusses how quickly and cheaply large scale renewables can be brought online.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France decarbonized way before the rest of Europe with nuclear and it wasn't expensive. 50 reactors for $200 billion. Gernamy has spent twice that on intermittents and still relies on coal

Such a tired point. It’s not the 1970s anymore, and the west can build any large projects cheap. Go look at the projected costs for France’s new fleet, and that’s before the inevitable cost overruns

Could you post a link to those projected costs?

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it depends where your electricity comes from actually. In west Virginia it comes from coal so is worse than a hybrid but still better than non-hybrid gas cars (in terms of CO2)

No it's not. The efficiency of an EV Motor > efficiency of ICEV motor. Even with 100% black coal. The carbon is reduced by about 30% IIRC (that number can and does improve as the grid greens).

Yes it is. Here is the study

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03062...

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if by close to nothing he means waste lasting 300 years instead of 10,000 years and by latest generation he means gen IV reactors like bn-800, superpheonix, oklo, moltex etc sure he is basically correct. Here’s a source where you can read more about breeder reactors: (which is what he is referring to) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeder_reactor

These aren't nuclear power plants. They're designs of nuclear power plants. None have been constructed (well, aside from old plants like Superphenix, which was a failure, so much so that the French have mothballed their fast reactor program.) Moreover, they would be considerably more expensive than existing plants (especially if fuel is to be reprocessed), so they're nonstarters.

Ah yes. “Old” plants. This plant is “old” so we could never build more like it. What an argument. And no, they would not be “considerably more expensive” because we wouldnt build a fleet of them until uranium was expensive enough that they would be cheaper. Thats why most countries have put off breeder reactor development not because they were “failures” whatever that is supposed to mean.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#550
post #204

Chinas policy around energy works and it has allowed them to become the world’s engine for renewable power. They get the benefit of energy efficiency and being a critical trade partner for every country in the world. My experience is that the UK (for example) doesn’t really know why it is building offshore wind. Is it to reduce bills to consumers (OFGEMS remit), is it to create local jobs in manufacturing (Clean Indu…

We're building offshore wind to provide clean power, that will be cheaper than gas and we won't have to rely on largely autocratic countries for that gas Got a long way to go as electricity is only a portion of our energy consumption - heating and transport are still largely fossil fuel based ATM

But at its core, what is the most important?

The cfd auctions are competitive on price, but things like clean industry bonus and supply chain plans expect some local content. You can’t compete on price and also use expensive UK suppliers.

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