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AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

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Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#541

Post by codexon »

spopejoy wrote: post #422
codexon wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I am one of the people who will say that. But where are the people calling for it to be banned? Where are the stores and websites that are banning AI generated software?

Really? You've not seen the numerous open source projects banning AI-generated PRs with extreme prejudice?

That's not really the same as stores outright banning AI code.

An apt analogy would be like a shared drawing taking merge requests and having to spend 30 minutes looking at every single merge request zoomed in to see if there was a microscopic phallus embedded somewhere.

It is completely fair for an open source project to have their own standards, and you are also free to fork it so you can accept as many AI PRs as you want.

None of these options are available for someone that wants to sell AI generated music. There are really only 2 marketplaces to sell your own music and if both of them banned AI, then you are effectively locked out of the entire market.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#542

Post by handoflixue »

munificent wrote: post #434
lukevp wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you create music without ever having heard music before? Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? AI music is the same as AI code. It’s derived from real code, but it’s not just regurgitated wholesale. You still as a person with taste have to guide it and provide inputs. Electronic music made it so you didn’t have to learn to play an instrument. Auto tune made it…

> Or are you also extracting other artist’s work and using it as inspiration for what you do? Yes, when I make music, I am taking inspiration from all of the other artists I've listened to and using that in my music. If someone listens to my music, they are getting some value from my contribution, but also indirectly from the musicians that inspired me. The difference between that and AI is that I am a human being wh…

> I am a human being who deserves to live a life of dignity

Sure, but so does the homeless guy living on the streets right now because computers and the internet automated his job - and yet here you are using the very tools ("mindless automatons") that put him out of work.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#543

Post by prmoustache »

BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

AI as tool is included inside almost every daw (or can be through VST) and there is no way bandcamp could enforce a strict "non AI has been used in the process" policy. I think it is sane to separate cases where a record is entirely generated by a single prompt vs AI used as instruments/tools.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#544

Post by prmoustache »

nobody_r_knows wrote: post #283
butlike wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI music is the same as AI code. It’s derived from real code, but it’s not just regurgitated wholesale. You still as a person with taste have to guide it and provide inputs. Not necessarily apples-to-apples here. Full songs generated from AI prompts don't crash like a computer program would. You could simply upload the garbage to Spotify and reap the rewards until it got removed (if it even does).

Some of the worst (best?) AI "artists" on Spotify have millions of views. It's tragic what it says about us. That most of us not only can't tell, but actually prefer this kind of uni-tone, blase, on-the-nose, emotionally manipulative crap.

> That most of us not only can't tell, but actually prefer this kind of uni-tone, blase, on-the-nose, emotionally manipulative crap.

This is already what pop music, EDM and some other genres have been about for decades. Most of it is slop made with overused similar chord progressions and beats. The very fact that we can easily separate music into genres is a proof most of the music we produce nowadays is super generic and follows very basic repetitive patterns.

There is AI slop but there is human slop too and it tends to be very successful.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#545

Post by summermusic »

eleventen wrote: post #119
olivierestsage wrote: post #16

Funny to see this right now. Spotify's promotion of AI music bothered me so much that it has actually pushed me to Bandcamp and the practice of buying music again. It's really fun to build a collection knowing you're supporting the artists, download FLAC files, organize your little "collection" page ... Feels like a renaissance in my relationship with music, the most fun I've had since what.cd. Anyway, love this stan…

Same for me! Switched to Bandcamp + Navidrome and have decided that one of my goals for the year is to find at least 2 albums per month I want to buy. I will shamelessly promote the bandcampsync [1] CLI tool for automating downloads of your bandcamp library and bandcamp-sync-flask [2] wrapper that I built so I could invoke it from the web on my phone after I buy an album. [1] https://github.com/meeb/bandcampsync [2]…

> one of my goals for the year is to find at least 2 albums per month I want to buy.

Rate Your Music (RYM) has been invaluable for me in discovering loads of music, I'd highly recommend it

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#546

Post by Culonavirus »

drittich wrote: post #112
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

Also a musician and I don't think it's that amusing. IMO this isn't an "AI can't be art" discussion. It's about the fact that AI can be used to extract value from other artists' work without consent, and then out-compete them on volume by flooding the marketplace.

Trickle-down economics with the "trickle" reduced to zero.

Why are people mad? Don't they understand that you can't stop progress? Fssss... /s

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#547

Post by somenameforme »

I wonder if YouTube is next; not just AI music, but videos. My recommendations are getting completely hijacked by AI generated garbage filled with comments complaining about the exact same thing. Ironically their algorithm is probably currently promoting that as 'engagement.' I see no way that this isn't greatly diminishing the overall 'value' of YouTube. At the minimum they're going to need to start downranking AI generated stuff hard.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#548

Post by handoflixue »

big-chungus4 wrote: post #525
SchemaLoad wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is upset about being able to generate stuff for personal use. They are upset by the industrial scale of dumping AI slop on platforms like Spotify that make it increasingly difficult to discover anything good anymore. There is lots of good music still being created these days, but you'll never find it by just hitting next on streaming sites because 99% of the content had about 5 minutes of effort put in before…

what if you create something that sounds good with suno? Wouldn't you want to share it?

No one is stopping you from sharing it. Bandcamp won't share it for you, and that's fair. Just like you're not willing to go shill for all my side-projects.

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#549

Post by larodi »

prmoustache wrote: post #543
BrokrnAlgorithm wrote: post #79

I'm a musician, but am also pretty amused by this anti ai wave. There was recently a post referencing aphex twin and old school idm and electronic music stuff and i can't help bein reminded how every new tech kit got always demonized until some group of artists came along and made it there own. Even if its just creative prompting, or perhaps custom trained models, someday someone will come along and make a genuine ar…

AI as tool is included inside almost every daw (or can be through VST) and there is no way bandcamp could enforce a strict "non AI has been used in the process" policy. I think it is sane to separate cases where a record is entirely generated by a single prompt vs AI used as instruments/tools.

Precisely - every reverb is impulse response, lots of other effects are effectively some sort of convolution with neural networks that we otherwise call AI. Arpegiattors are AI and the random jumps between patterns in Ableton are a Markov Chain.

What does Bandcamp really mean? Perhaps sampling others voices and music is barred, not these mini-AIs that are everywhere ?

Re: AI generated music barred from Bandcamp

#550

Post by Mashimo »

neom wrote: post #142
frakt0x90 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I see defences of AI "art" people very often reduce the arguments to these analogies of using tools, but it's ineffective. Whether you use MS Paint, Photoshop, pencil, watercolor etc. That all requires skill, practice, and is this great intersection of intent and ability. It's authentic . Generating media with AI requires no skill, no intent, and very minimal labor. It is an approximation of the words you ty…

Sure, but you also just disregarded a whole swath of people who use the tools/abstractions as a component of the composition of a final work. If I download a free vector of a premade sun to put into my final multimodal image, how is that any less authentic to me and my work? You feel like I cheated? Not how you would do it? This reminds me of when the film industry moved to digital and the pro associations said for c…

> a whole swath of people who use the tools/abstractions as a component of the composition of a final work.

But that is allowed on bandcamp? It's not allowed if it's mostly done with AI.

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