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The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

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Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#541

Post by somat »

So what's the mechanism here? I did not find any sort of api like isPhoneRooted() But also, I did not look very hard.

I am probably missing something obvious(some sort of tpm key attestation) but it feels like it would be impossible task. I mean, theoretically higher layers can check that lower layers have the correct signed checksums, but they need to use the lower layer to do it and the lower layer could just lie to them. (if isSystemFile(f_name) then return originalFile(f_name); or provide a virtual tpm).

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#542

Post by Retric »

roenxi wrote: post #487
lxgr wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 No, the much more secure while at the same time liberty-preserving way to do this are heavily sandboxed secure enclaves with attestation, or even better standalone tamper-proof devices capable of attestation. Like the ones practically every bank customer already has in their wallet, and for which most phones have a built-in reader these days...…

In principle I'm certainly on board with the idea, but the problem is - at least in the Anglosphere, probably further - that the financial system is part of the military and policing systems. They are a powerful and persistent lobby that want a phone to be able to provide enough who-what-when-where to be able to put someone in jail or in extreme cases drop a missile on them. That is one of the reasons the crypto mark…

Crypto is decentralized but that only goes so far. There’s plenty of instances where bunch of armed guys have taken over data centers not just vaults.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#543

Post by walkthisway »

linuxhansl wrote: post #538

And so it begins... Or continues... Apple is already a walled garden, granting you only access to your hardware and they see fit. Google desperately wants to follow suit by enforcing developer registration (which is just the first step). And now this. This is will happen in the EU and US as well. And always in the name of security, safety, or "will nobody think of the children?!" My hardware, my choice, period.

> My hardware, my choice, period.

You can choose to not use the app.

The bank has a choice on how customers interact with it.

The government, regulating banks, and often acting as insurance for lost money, has a choice on setting required security standards.

Balancing all these is difficult.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#544

Post by Dylan16807 »

ploxiln wrote: post #365
ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

I was going to object to $300, but maybe that will be needed if you want actual security...

Just "a phone" with a bad update policy is $100.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#545

Post by regularfry »

ploxiln wrote: post #365
ryandrake wrote: post #309

The biggest "evil" that has been committed (and is still being committed) against computing has been normalizing this idea of not having root access to a device you supposedly own. That having root access to your computer, and therefore being the ultimate authority over what gets run on it, is bad or risky or dangerous. That "sideloading" is weird and needs a separate name, and is not the normal case of simply loadin…

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

They can pay for it then. And I'll have my own, that I control.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#546

Post by lotsofpulp »

ryandrake wrote: post #343
SoftTalker wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, a lot of small employers still issue paper payroll checks.

Maybe it's different for non-homeowners or people without kids. Just looking back at my records for about 2 years, I've written 36 paper checks in that time, not including the "online bill pay" provided by my bank which are often just physical checks they send in the mail: Kids extracurricular activities, school PTA donations, memberships in local clubs, pool service, home improvement jobs like fences and concrete, a…

I’m a homeowner and have kids, and I’ve never written a check in my life. I can login to Bank of America and have them print and mail a check for free, but the recipient has to wait.

I only have to do this rarely, and it’s always because the recipient wants to charge a “convenience fee” for having me pay with ACH or debit card or credit card. (The seller is assuming people would rather pay an extra $3 to $5 to not have to write a check or mail anything).

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#547

Post by danparsonson »

grishka wrote: post #534
squibonpig wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, did it do 80% of the stuff? Devices have changed a lot.

I've never used a Blackberry but it was much more efficient for me to input text (an essential task for a communication device!) on non-iPhone-style phones with physical buttons.

Nothing useful to add except, god I miss my Bold 9700. Every time I slip on this stupid touchscreen keyboard and make a stupid typo on this stupid phone I howl inwardly and wish pain and endless torment upon everyone who took us down this path away from light and goodness. Grumble grumble

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#548

Post by [deleted] »

lucasjans wrote: post #375

I have a Vietnam bank account tho I live in the States now. I recently enabled developer mode in my Android phone, didn't think much of it. But later when I open my mobile banking app it told me to disable developer mode in order to open the app. It's not just root that they block.

[deleted]

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#549

Post by danparsonson »

firefax wrote: post #401
Helmut10001 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned in another post: By 2026, you'll need two phones. My current setup: 1) An unmodified iPhone SE (2022 model) with OS support until 2032. This runs all my authentication, banking, health, etc. It is in airplane mode 99% of the time unless I need it. 2) The second is a Pixel 9a with Graphene OS for daily use, routing and internet access. This is expensive, but I found it to be the only viable solution to…

Is there a resource for what phones are known good to run GrapheneOS?

It's Pixels only at the moment; the GOS team are apparently working with another hardware vendor to produce a suitable device, but that's still a long way off.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#550

Post by throwaway2037 »

andy99 wrote: post #423
thisislife2 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or ... just don't install the apps and use the browser to do your banking.

My (Canadian) bank extorted me into installing their app, literally blocking me from doing transfers of my own money without it - I had to install it and take a picture of myself and my ID. After this I was able to switch to sms authentication and delete it, but they’re obviously trying to force people onto the app, and eventually they will do so more aggressively. Of course in Canada we have a banking oligopoly that…

    > Of course in Canada we have a banking oligopoly that is effectively there just to rob people
Are there any OECD nations that don't have a banking oligopoly? I can think of at least one: Germany, because they have Sparkasse (community banks). Does Canada have community banks like Germany and the United States? If yes, then you should vote with your wallet and switch.
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