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Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

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Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#541

Post by GoblinSlayer »

tliltocatl wrote: post #390
PurpleRamen wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that Mozilla keeps jumping on fads instead of focusing on their browser core. They always did, everyone does. This is not really new, and not really that harmful in itself. The deeper problem is that you need developers who are also understanding what they are doing, what people want and need, developers who are nerdy about some topic and very deep into their understanding of it. But Mozilla seems to…

> Didn't they say they will continue with Manifest v2? Yes and that's a good thing > Wasn't NPAPI mostly replaced with HTML5? It's true that what NPAPI was used for 99% of the time is better served by HTML5. But it's not like NPAPI was limited to Flash and applets. Afair NPAPI plugins can access all native resources (which is the reason why the security sucked so much), HTML5 obviously can't. E. g. runtime code gener…

Can't you install an extension that will connect to localhost where you can run anything?

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#542

Post by godelski »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #496
godelski wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By having the most engaged users leave and splinter the community furtehr Power users going to a fork like Mullvad or Waterfox still helps Mozilla. Just in the same way that people switching to Brave helps Google. > We really will do anything except message your policy makers, huh? I actually do this. And I'm actually decently satisfied with one of them. I bet you're grateful for that person too even if you don't k…

>I bet you're grateful for that person too even if you don't know it. I'm grateful for actions, not words. I don't see much action here. >Seriously, I don't get the problem. Easy to be blind when you choose not to see. I don't have much to add to neither the llm nor Mozilla debate. We have plenty of literature on the issues with both.

  > I don't see much action here.
Then either:

You're not paying attention

Or

The lack of perfection, and existence of opposition, blinds you to such action.

It isn't words I expect you you be grateful for, it's actions.

While it's far from perfect and far from where I'd personally like things to be, there is progress being made on the privacy and digital rights fronts. We've won the right to repair. We've struck down strong efforts to kill net neutrality. Several states have stronger data rights for their citizens[0]! And we've done much more! It's an uphill battle but that doesn't mean it's one we're losing!

  > Easy to be blind when you choose not to see.
You're right!

But I'm not the one making everything black and white. It's good to strive for perfection, but if you're waiting till it's achieved then you'll be waiting for eternity.

Worse, if you're hyper critical at progress towards the world we want then we'll never get there. If you complain when a company does wrong and when a company makes a step in the right direction that's not big enough then why should they ever listen to you? All you've told them is that there's nothing they can do that will make you[1] happy. So why should they listen? Why should they even try?

You play a dangerous game. One we already know how it plays out...

[0] https://iapp.org/resources/article/us-state-privacy-legislat...

[1] and everyone else like you that is not 100% aligned in your wants. No company can make all of you perfectly happy at the same time because you are not identical people.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#543

Post by GoblinSlayer »

tliltocatl wrote: post #506
rPlayer6554 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok so walk me through how _only_ focusing on the browser core will make them money other than continuing to be dependent on Google. How can they diversify their revenue streams? I agree they should make the browser core good, but right now they are entirely dependent on their biggest competitor.

- Start accepting small individual donations solely for the Firefox team (rather than generalized Mozilla stuff that goes on anything but Firefox). - Start crowdfunding for features. - Go RedHat route, offer an enterprise version with centrally managed profiles and DLP feature. Not exactly free-as-in-freedom stuff but still better than adtech. - Get some EU bureaucrats thru a FUD session against Chrome (does it count…

A summarizer built into the browser can be nice. To monetize add a feature to summarize OpenDocument and pdf files.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#544

Post by godelski »

protocolture wrote: post #531
godelski wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no customer benefit to shoving AI in every application at every layer. What AI has been shoved down your throat? Translate requires you to download the model for language pairs. That's opt-in. The chatbots aren't chatbots, they're just a fucking shortcut to the 5th most popular website on the internet. I hate to break it to you, but there's also a shortcut to the #1, #2, #4, #6, #7, #9, #10, and #13 most popular we…

>"Shut up with the talk that makes people switch to Chrome". No this is silly and you should dispense with it. Theres no cow so sacred it cant be criticised. >Do you realize how big an LLM is? Clearly you don't. Yes I do, I have run qwen 4b locally. >The browser isn't going to fit on a lot of people's computers if they shove an LLM in. The point I was making. Anything down this track is going to cause resource headac…

  >> "Shut up with the talk that makes people switch to Chrome".
  > No this is silly and you should dispense with it. Theres no cow so sacred it cant be criticised.
You think that just because I'm telling you to not grab your pitchfork that I'm defending Mozilla as infallible?

I don't believe in sacred cows, but unlike you I do not believe there is a cow so profane that it should be vilified at every turn.

  > We are super sensitive
All you are doing is teaching Mozilla to ignore you.

If they do bad you get angry. If they do good you get angry because it isn't good enough.

They cannot win! So tell me, why they should listen. Maybe they can do good enough by you but by doing so that won't be good enough by millions of others. And why should they optimize for one person?

Do not conflate my disbelief in demons as a belief in gods. You are confused at who is the religious one here

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#545

Post by aryonoco »

mort96 wrote: post #529
aryonoco wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are those. I pay to support Floorp. But I also donate to Firefox and Thunderbird cause the forks wouldn’t exist without them.

I may be prematurely judgemental here but I just can not take a project named "floorp" seriously. Your second paragraph is more important though: none of these let's call them Firefox distributions are proper forks. They're not developed by teams who could develop and maintain a browser independent of Mozilla. I believe that's what your parent comment means by a "serious fork". Floorp and Waterfox and LibreWolf are n…

It’s Firefox fork being developed by a bunch of Japanese students.

They do good work. I can forgive them for not being the best at naming things in English.

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#546

Post by mort96 »

aryonoco wrote: post #545
mort96 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be prematurely judgemental here but I just can not take a project named "floorp" seriously. Your second paragraph is more important though: none of these let's call them Firefox distributions are proper forks. They're not developed by teams who could develop and maintain a browser independent of Mozilla. I believe that's what your parent comment means by a "serious fork". Floorp and Waterfox and LibreWolf are n…

It’s Firefox fork being developed by a bunch of Japanese students. They do good work. I can forgive them for not being the best at naming things in English.

I "forgive" them too, I have no animosity towards them and wish them the best. I just think that the name communicates a lack of seriousness. That's not a criticism, I have plenty of non-serious projects

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#547

Post by GoblinSlayer »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #541
tliltocatl wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Didn't they say they will continue with Manifest v2? Yes and that's a good thing > Wasn't NPAPI mostly replaced with HTML5? It's true that what NPAPI was used for 99% of the time is better served by HTML5. But it's not like NPAPI was limited to Flash and applets. Afair NPAPI plugins can access all native resources (which is the reason why the security sucked so much), HTML5 obviously can't. E. g. runtime code gener…

Can't you install an extension that will connect to localhost where you can run anything?

docs https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/Web...

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#548

Post by AuthAuth »

amake wrote: post #239
AuthAuth wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not a reason for crypto being useless, anything can bribe corrupt governments to pour tax money into it. Crypto has shown people are willing to use it as a currency for investment and day to day transactions. Its held value for a significant amount of time. The tech is evolving still and people see a lot of value in having a currency that operates outside of Governments in a decentralized way even if some peopl…

> day to day transactions Where is this happening?

Between me and my drug dealer

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#549

Post by yoavm »

superkuh wrote: post #27
yoavm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love threads about Mozilla. New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI minority will be happy), and people blame them for not having it as an enable-switch. Whatever they do, they simply cannot win. I'm personally starting to suspect the main issue with Mozilla i…

This seems like a cultural mismatch more than anything. Mozilla makes software that human people use and human people use normal language rather than avoiding the non-profitable aggravation associated with emotive language that a company employee might be used to. Look at the point that op made instead of the tone: the AI feature should be opt-in not opt-out. That's a good point. Let's talk about that. It seems like…

It's not a good point. One year from now, every browser is going to be an "AI browser". If Firefox will make it harder to use features that are expected of every browser, it will lose. This is akin to saying that JavaScript should be opt-in. If you want to disable these things, you're clearly a power user, and you should at least be comfortable with clicking "Edit" and then "Settings".

Re: Firefox will have an option to disable all AI features

#550

Post by yoavm »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #244
yoavm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love threads about Mozilla. New CEO says he's not going to remove adblockers, people suspect him for planning to remove adblockers. Mozilla says they'll add a killswitch for all AI features (so that the tiny but vocal anti-AI minority will be happy), and people blame them for not having it as an enable-switch. Whatever they do, they simply cannot win. I'm personally starting to suspect the main issue with Mozilla i…

Trust takes a lifetime to build, and a moment to break. Those “moments” are becoming more of streams of time these days. How many times does a scorpion need to sting the frog for the frog to be justified in being wary of “ I definitely won’t sting you this time!”

Except Firefox is a better browser now than it ever was.
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