German government comes out against Chat Control • Hacker News Board

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#541

Post by mfru » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 6:15 AM UTC

selfmodruntime wrote: post #476

kharak wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you are downvoted. Social market economy is the self-description in Germany, it's what you learn in school and how German politicians name the system. The goal of social market economy is to 'correct undesirable effects' of free markets. Depending on your perspective, you categorize it as capitalist, socialist or in-between system.

> Not sure why you are downvoted. Because the reality of this is unpopular for critics of capitalism. Most people rarely have an idea how far removed from laissez faire capitalism European countries are. This doesn't stop critics from ironically mentioning that free markets altogether don't work for example in our renter's market (which is the most restricted market we have). The ill-effects we are now feeling are fr…

If you ask nearly any person on the street in Germany (or Austria, or Switzerland) which economic system is in effect, they will say it is capitalism. Because it is.

The means of production are in the hand of capital. Profit is the driving factor of companies. "Number go up" is still the default goal.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#542

Post by Asmod4n » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 6:53 AM UTC

lukan wrote: post #523

lmf4lol wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is your reading my friend. in your whole quote, there is no mentioning of the word “fascist”. also nothing about “violent takeover”. if you take those statements to mean that, then what is Antifa doing? Or XR? Or the pro-pallies? ah right. only radical left is allowed to use “violence”, right?

So .. you are saying because modern fascists seldom use the term fascist for themself, they ain't no fascist? Well, to me it is enough if people subscribe openly to all the main ideology of Hitlers party and that time in general. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and swims like a duck, it is a duck. Höcke can be officially called a Fascist due to his statements. Was he removed from the party? Or shunned eve…

He is just a bought troll, ignore him. Most of his comments got deleted from hn, just look at his profile. The ones he made here don’t even show up.

Edit: I mean the one with lol in his name.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#543

Post by gambiting » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 7:37 AM UTC

fragmede wrote: post #533

gambiting wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why they are okay with calling out the far right but not okay calling out the far left I will never understand So help me out here. "Far right" is usually full of brilliant ideas like lets round people up and deport them without due process, doesn't matter where - or starting to look into getting rid of people with fully legal right to stay, or saying that they haven't seen a single white face in a town somehow isn…

If we're genuinely asking, real actual communism comes into play. I think children being raised by government programs and not their parents would be extreme left. Making it so that no one can have more than $1 million to their name would be extreme left. Forcing people to be impregnated and give up those babies to government to be raised by them would also be extreme. Maybe left? Prohibiting religions. Making it ill…

I was genuinely asking, so thank you for replying with actual examples.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#544

Post by miroljub » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 7:42 AM UTC

jijijijij wrote: post #514

miroljub wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is completely untrue. The Atomaustieg happened under Merkel (CDU) and was catalyzed by Fukushima. That's democracy, for you, btw. So, when the government does something populistic (with majority support) that is bad for the country, it's a democracy. But when the government refuses to do something populistic (with majority support) that is good for the country, that's also democracy. Looks like our democracy #…

I suggest you read the German constitution, if you have questions about these sort of things. https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/BJNR000010949.html

I suggest you explain your point here instead of dropping random links in a typical passive-aggressive way that suggests the poster has no clue and needs to be educated about the basics. That may work in your SPD Kreisverband, but not in a digital Neuland.

If you have questions about how to respond, this is a good starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_alphabet

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#545

Post by fragmede » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 7:47 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #543

fragmede wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're genuinely asking, real actual communism comes into play. I think children being raised by government programs and not their parents would be extreme left. Making it so that no one can have more than $1 million to their name would be extreme left. Forcing people to be impregnated and give up those babies to government to be raised by them would also be extreme. Maybe left? Prohibiting religions. Making it ill…

I was genuinely asking, so thank you for replying with actual examples.

Forced euthanasia for people when they reach the age of 70. Legalized post-birth abortion until the child is 3. Testing people and sorting them into castes (alpha, beta, gamma, etc). Legalizing all drugs. I don't know if any real world political parties actually back these ideas, these are drawn from science fiction novels.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#546

Post by FirmwareBurner » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 8:15 AM UTC

the_gipsy wrote: post #530

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>until it starts happening to X, which is your group, With that logic we shouldn't ever punish or jail criminals because you too might be a criminal one day.

No, by my logic we shouldn't take citizenship away, period. How can you be so dense?

You can't take my citizenship away if it's my only one, you dense piece of concrete. Why would I fear that would happen to "my group"?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#547

Post by latexr » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 8:18 AM UTC

winternewt wrote: post #519

latexr wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly does that entail, outside of the analogy and in the real world, in the context of Chat Control legislation?

Promote a better constitution that protects people from laws like this?

That is a wish, not an actionable step.

We could instead say “promote a utopia where everyone is treated fairly and empathetically and everyone’s needs are met without destroying the planet or a need for government”. That’d “fix” the current problem and more, the issue is what exactly can we do to “promote” that change.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#548

Post by lukan » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 8:20 AM UTC

Asmod4n wrote: post #542

lukan wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So .. you are saying because modern fascists seldom use the term fascist for themself, they ain't no fascist? Well, to me it is enough if people subscribe openly to all the main ideology of Hitlers party and that time in general. If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and swims like a duck, it is a duck. Höcke can be officially called a Fascist due to his statements. Was he removed from the party? Or shunned eve…

He is just a bought troll, ignore him. Most of his comments got deleted from hn, just look at his profile. The ones he made here don’t even show up. Edit: I mean the one with lol in his name.

Thank you. I got triggered ..

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#549

Post by FirmwareBurner » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 9:07 AM UTC

avianlyric wrote: post #528

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is you who are misinformed. According to your Wikipedia link she was a dual citizen so the UK had the legal rights to strip her of her British one and she was left with her Bangladeshi citizenship, so not stateless. >However, the UK government contended that Begum was a dual national, also holding citizenship of Bangladesh, and was not therefore made stateless by the decision. >However, the Special Immigration…

She was born in the UK as a UK citizens to parents that were naturalised UK citizens. By your definition her “primary” citizenship was British. That was where she was born, that was where she grew up, that was the first citizenship she gained. Due to her parent Bangladeshi origins, she had a separate right to claim Bangladeshi citizenship, but at the point she lost her British citizenship had not claim that right. Sh…

>She was born in the UK as a UK citizens to parents that were naturalised UK citizens.

Her parents were not UK citizens, they were Bangladeshi citizens making her Bangladeshi first. Her parents had "settled" status in the UK granting her UK citizenship but her parents were not UK citizens. It's literally in the wiki link you shared.

"Begum was born in London to immigrant parents of Bangladeshi Muslim origin and citizenship"

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#550

Post by FinnKuhn » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 9:50 AM UTC

janderson215 wrote: post #502

FinnKuhn wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They voted to ban the terms vegan sausage and vegan burger just earlier today. So much about being pro free speech. Votes by party affiliation and name to verify this can be accessed here: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/PV-10-2025-10-...

As an American currently in Germany, the food situation is soooo much better here and they would do well to not allow incorrect or misleading labels on consumer products. I understand what you’re saying about censorship, but this is a pretty weak example, IMO. We had something similar in the US with attempts to ban the word “milk” from “almond milk” [0]. Are there other examples that are more egregious? [0] https://a…

It’s not misleading in any way for consumers though. The consumer protection agency in Germany explicitly stated that no consumers have been confused so far (https://www.wiwo.de/100160889.html). The vegan/vegetarian sausages such as the soja sausage, which Konrad Adenauer invented more than 100 years ago, are in a completely different section and shelf in the supermarket and clearly marked as vegetarian. This law is a clear example of the government banning people from calling their products what they are and it is the opposite of free speech.