Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#541

Post by troad » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 1:13 AM UTC

docmars wrote: post #539

ratelimitsteve wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's illegal about talking to people about what you saw in public?

Give me a break, don't play word games. If you created an app that essentially doxed police and schemed ways to circumvent their ability to enforce the law, I'd hope you would get in trouble for that, especially if it compromised the safety of those you care about, don't you agree?

What word games is he playing? You're making a factual claim about the legality of something, and you're being directly queried on the veracity of that claim.

Given that it's legal (in the US) to film/livestream cops so long as they are not obstructed in the commission of their duties, and in the wider context of the First Amendment, I find it relatively hard to believe that merely reporting cop sightings is illegal. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/02/yes-you-have-right-fil...

It is widely agreed that transparency and accountability in policing makes for better policing.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#542

Post by dialup_sounds » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 1:16 AM UTC

angoragoats wrote: post #503

dialup_sounds wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not understand. I am equating the desire of unhinged private citizens to commit violence to the desire of other unhinged private citizens to commit violence. Reasonable people aren't the problem. "An app that gives you real-time updates on the location of people you deeply dislike" is It's extremely unlikely that there are not more people out there The point is that If you're in Apple's position it doesn't esp…

Fair enough. However, you said: "If the app in question is being used by some to commit targeted violence, ..." Was this a pure hypothetical? If so, I don't think it needs to be addressed until it actually becomes a real problem. Apple itself ships an app that alerts me when a police officer is nearby (Maps), but I haven't heard about any police being targeted with violence because of that. If it was not a pure hypot…

It's a hypothetical in that while a) the primary purpose of the app is to locate a certain group and b) people have died due to attacks targeting that group (i.e. Dallas) there is no concrete causative connection between the two.

While it might better satisfy our sense of justice to wait until we can definitely say that a enabled b, the hazard is obvious, and Apple can reasonably determine that they don't want to be party to it.

> I am aware of private citizens committing violence against the same groups that ICE targets ..

Of course. Does Apple host apps whose primary purpose is reporting the location of those groups?

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#543

Post by gottorf » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 1:37 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #464

JuniperMesos wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power to detain a bunch of people for hours when it's not clear if any of them have committed a crime is a power the cops already have, and use from time to time. And ordinary city cops, not just ICE specifically.

Right but the difference is in both scale and rationale. Do you believe it would be acceptable for your door to be broken down and all of your stuff confiscated because you happened to live in the same building as an illegal immigrant? Because that is the literal event we're talking about here.

Of course that's not acceptable, but my point is that it's the same level of unacceptable that has occurred countless times by all levels of law enforcement entities, be it local or federal. It's just as unacceptable as if your door was broken down and your stuff confiscated because you happened to live in the same building as a drug dealer.

I'm just pushing back on the whole "fascism", "end of the republic" narrative on the grounds that the problem is not specific to this particular administration.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#544

Post by gottorf » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 1:44 AM UTC

lenkite wrote: post #155

gottorf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely an app designed to help circumvent the law is a bad thing, even if it doesn't make one legally a criminal merely by association?

With that attitude in 1775-76, the US wouldn't have won independence. Would you tug your forelock (and empty your purse) and Kneel to the King ?

I assume your point is that not all laws are just only by virtue of being laws. I agree with this. And of course, not all lawbreaking is equal in severity. We all can tell that jaywalking is not the same as vehicular homicide. At the same time, we should also be able to agree that selective following and enforcement of laws is disparaging to the spirit of a nation of laws.

Do you find the current American immigration laws, and the enforcement thereof, to be unjust? Do you see it as your moral duty to abrogate them, and help others do so? If so, can you explain why?

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#545

Post by sherry-sherry » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 2:11 AM UTC

toukale wrote: post #111

Why are we asking for profits companies to fight our fights? I am reading lots of comments from keyboard warriors. For profits companies are not there to fight citizens fights. You don't want this kind of stuff to happen, then people need to fight their governments and demand better and stop relying on for profits entities to do so.

Apple makes huge claims about their involvement in advancing things like inclusion and diversity, workers rights, privacy rights, equity and justice. They literally sell pride merch which they make a profit from.

Apple market themselves as being an ethical choice of companies regarding human rights, when they throw that out the window with shit like this, people get pissed.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#546

Post by angoragoats » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 2:14 AM UTC

dialup_sounds wrote: post #542

angoragoats wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. However, you said: "If the app in question is being used by some to commit targeted violence, ..." Was this a pure hypothetical? If so, I don't think it needs to be addressed until it actually becomes a real problem. Apple itself ships an app that alerts me when a police officer is nearby (Maps), but I haven't heard about any police being targeted with violence because of that. If it was not a pure hypot…

It's a hypothetical in that while a) the primary purpose of the app is to locate a certain group and b) people have died due to attacks targeting that group (i.e. Dallas) there is no concrete causative connection between the two. While it might better satisfy our sense of justice to wait until we can definitely say that a enabled b, the hazard is obvious, and Apple can reasonably determine that they don't want to be…

> It's a hypothetical in that while a) the primary purpose of the app is to locate a certain group and b) people have died due to attacks targeting that group (i.e. Dallas) there is no concrete causative connection between the two.

Cool, then I stand by what I said previously: it doesn't need to (and actually shouldn't) be addressed now. The app has value for journalists, protesters, people looking to prevent family or friends from being kidnapped, and others. All of those benefits outweigh purely hypothetical concerns around possible violence.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#547

Post by fzeroracer » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 2:15 AM UTC

gottorf wrote: post #543

fzeroracer wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but the difference is in both scale and rationale. Do you believe it would be acceptable for your door to be broken down and all of your stuff confiscated because you happened to live in the same building as an illegal immigrant? Because that is the literal event we're talking about here.

Of course that's not acceptable, but my point is that it's the same level of unacceptable that has occurred countless times by all levels of law enforcement entities, be it local or federal. It's just as unacceptable as if your door was broken down and your stuff confiscated because you happened to live in the same building as a drug dealer. I'm just pushing back on the whole "fascism", "end of the republic" narrativ…

> narrative on the grounds that the problem is not specific to this particular administration.

Can you tell me how much budget ICE had prior to this administration, and how often prior admins conducted very specific raids into cities that they deemed to be against their interest? Because I think this line of argumentation is incredibly stupid; it may have held true during the prior Trump admin where he was mostly continuing a neoliberal agenda but this is a clear escalation on multiple levels.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#548

Post by exBarrelSpoiler » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 2:15 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #265

saurik wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, this much should at least be pretty obvious: if you go far far far out of your way to do something that no one required you to do to defend something that pretty clearly leads to a specific result, you are certainly MORE complicit in the results of that action than if you take an action that you are required to do at gunpoint and which only very indirectly and at very low impact causes the result (to the point…

Well to start with no one requires anyone to get a job and pay taxes. You could just as well live off food banks and take as much money from government. Knowing that the government does this, one need not give them any money any longer. You could spend down your balance and start eating from the food bank. It's a pretty active act to go earn money that you then fully know (completely ahead of time) that you are givin…

Essentially your argument is “if you don’t like it so much why don’t you move?” which must feel satisfying to trot out but is obviously fatuous.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#549

Post by angoragoats » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 2:18 AM UTC

godelski wrote: post #508

angoragoats wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, well, a quick Google gives you the answer I think you're looking for: > In an email to ICEBlock creator Joshua Aaron, Apple wrote that “upon re-evaluation,” the app does not comply with its app store guidelines around “objectionable” and “defamatory, discriminatory, or mean-spirited content,” according to a copy of the message viewed by CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/03/tech/iceblock-apple-removed-t...

> Oh, well, a quick Google gives you the answer I think you're looking for The reason I made the first comment was not because I was unable to find the answer myself but because I wanted to push back against this type of commenting. To respond to what people are actually asking. Pressure to help push the culture of our community to be more productive.

It seems to me that the best way to "help push the culture of our community to be more productive" is to be more productive yourself, instead of engaging in meta-discussion about the community not being productive enough for your tastes. In other words, you could have just actually posted the answer to the question instead of scolding two other commenters for not doing so.

Re: Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ

#550

Post by danielinoa » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 2:23 AM UTC

fearless1ron wrote: post #80

mrinterweb wrote: post #15

Google is making it so sideloading APKs on Android is no longer possible. This is one of many great reasons why that should not happen.

I agree with you, but can we stop calling installing software on the hardware you own "sideloading"?

It's called "sideloading" because you're sneakily installing software without the manufacturer's consent. Remember it's never your device, you just have permission to use it.