MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline • Hacker News Board

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#541

Post by rawgabbit » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 5:01 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #20

A few things to note. 1. This is arxiv - before publication or peer review. Grain of salt.[0] 2. 18 participants per cohort 3. 54 participants total Given the low N and the likelihood that this is drawn from 18-22 year olds attending MIT, one should expect an uphill battle for replication and for generalizability. Further, they are brain scanning during the experiment, which is an uncomfortable/out-of-the-norm experi…

I skimmed the paper and I question the validity of the experiment.

There was a “brain” group who did three sessions of essay writing and on the fourth session, they used ChatGPT. The paper’s authors said during the fourth session, the brain groups EEG was higher than the LLM groups EEG when they also used ChatGPT.

I interpret this as the brain group did things the hard way and when they did things the easy way, their brains were still expecting the same cognitive load.

But isn’t the point of writing an essay is the quality of the essay? The LLM supposedly brain damaged group still produced an essay for session 4 that was graded “high” by both AI and human judges but were faulted for “stood out less” in terms of distance in n-gram usage compared to the other groups? I think this making a mountain out of a very small mole hill.

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#542

Post by srkirk » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 5:07 AM UTC

mnky9800n wrote: post #67

tomrod wrote: post #20

A few things to note. 1. This is arxiv - before publication or peer review. Grain of salt.[0] 2. 18 participants per cohort 3. 54 participants total Given the low N and the likelihood that this is drawn from 18-22 year olds attending MIT, one should expect an uphill battle for replication and for generalizability. Further, they are brain scanning during the experiment, which is an uncomfortable/out-of-the-norm experi…

I feel like saying papers pre peer review should be taken with a grain of salt should be stopped. Peer review is not some idealistic scientific endeavour it often leads to bullshit comments, slows down release, is free work for companies that have massive profit margins, etc. From my experience publishing 30+ papers I have received as many bad or useless comments as I have good ones. We should at least default to ope…

I believe LLMs have the potential to (for good or ill, depending on your view) destroy academic journals.

The scenario I am thinking of is academic A submitting a manuscript to an academic journal, which gets passed on by the journal editor to a number of reviewers, one of whom is academic B. B has a lot on their plate at the moment, but sees a way to quickly dispose of the reviewing task, thus maintaining a possibly illusory 'good standing' in the journal's eyes, by simply throwing the manuscript to an LLM to review. There are (at least) two negative scenarios here: 1. The paper contains embedded (think white text on a white background) instructions left by academic A to any LLM reading the manuscript to view it in a positive light, regardless of how well the described work has been conducted. This has already happened IRL, by the way. 2. Academic A didn't embed LLM instructions, but receives the review report, which show clear signs that the reviewer either didn't understand the paper, gave unspecific comments, highlighted only typos or simply used phrasing that seems artifically-generated. A now feels aggrieved that their paper was not given the attention and consideration it deserved by an academic peer and now has a negative opinion of the journal for (seemingly) allowing the paper to be LLM-reviewed. And just as journals will have great difficulty filtering for LLM-generated manuscripts, it will also find it very difficult to filter for LLM-generated reviewers reports.

Granted, scenario 2 already happens with only humans in the loop (the dreaded 'Reviewer 2' academic meme). But LLMs can only make this much much worse.

Both scenarios destroy trust in the whole idea of peer-reviewed science journals.

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#543

Post by kamaal » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 5:21 AM UTC

intended wrote: post #540

keepamovin wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of back when 12,500 years ago I could really shape a flint into a spear head in no time. Took me seasons to learn that skill from the Masters. Then Sky Gods came and taught people metal-fire. Nobody knows how to really chip and carve a point any more. They just cast them in moulds. We are seeing a literal split of skills in front of our eyes. People who know how to shape rocks deeply. And people who j…

Ah you are an old one. I was born later, and missed this phase of our history. This reminds me of back 11,500 years ago, when people used to worship the sharper or bigger pieces of obsidian. They felt the biggest piece would win them the biggest hunt. They forgot that the size of the tool mattered less than mastery of the hunt. Why the best hunter could take down a moving mattress with just the right words, string an…

On a more serious note, here in India most millennials/boomers remember taking a Engineering Drawing class in second semester Engineering courses. It would involve using a real drafter, real calculations and making real drawings. Isometric projects and all.

I remember it took me like 4 nights of standing to make Isometric projections of a landing gear strut. I wondered if pursuing an Engineering degree was even worth it. Some of my classmates did quit, as years went by.

These days they just let you use CAD software to make things work, and based on what I hear kids just Copy paste files and are done with the assignments.

I mean we all have these Kids these days talk, but somethings do matter. Making all these tasks easy has allowed lots of people who would have other wise failed in the previous generations pass.

There is now an unemployment and low pay crisis all over India due to so many Engineers passing. Sometimes when I hear the newer generations complain about how hard it is to buy a home, or get a good job. Im inclined to think, perhaps hard things should have been kept hard for a reason.

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#544

Post by srkirk » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 5:48 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #79

mnky9800n wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like saying papers pre peer review should be taken with a grain of salt should be stopped. Peer review is not some idealistic scientific endeavour it often leads to bullshit comments, slows down release, is free work for companies that have massive profit margins, etc. From my experience publishing 30+ papers I have received as many bad or useless comments as I have good ones. We should at least default to ope…

> I feel like saying papers pre peer review should be taken with a grain of salt should be stopped. Absolutely not. I am an advocate for peer review, warts and all, and find that it has significant value. From a personal perspective, peer review has improved or shot down 100% of the papers that I have worked on -- which to me indicates its value to ensure good ideas with merit make it through. Papers I've reviewed ar…

What happens if (a) the scholarly sphere is continually expanding and (b) no researcher has time to be ripping apart anything? That also suggests (c) Researchers delegate reviewing duties to LLMs.

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#545

Post by kjkjadksj » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 6:32 AM UTC

jbstack wrote: post #457

kjkjadksj wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the school experience proves that doesn’t work. Reminds me of a teacher carefully breaking down the problem on the board and you nodding along when it is unfolding in front of you in a directed manner. The question is if you can do it yourself come the exam. If all you did to prepare is watch the teacher solve it, with no attempt to solve it from scratch yourself during practice, you will fail the exam.

That very much depends on the topic being studied. I've passed plenty of exams of different levels (school, university, professional qualifications) just by reading the textbook and memorising key facts. I'd agree with you if we are talking about something like maths. Also, there's a huge difference between passively watching a teacher write an explanation on a board, and interactively quizzing the teacher (or in thi…

The issue is verifying the LLM is returning actual facts. By the time you’ve done that consulting sufficient reliable information, you don’t need the LLM.

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#546

Post by Mentlo » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 6:33 AM UTC

causal wrote: post #286

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #211

This is a bad and sloppy regurgitation of a previous (and more original) source[1] and the headline and article explicitly ignore the paper authors' plea[2] to avoid using the paper to try to draw the exact conclusions this article saying the paper draws. The comments (some, not all) are also a great example of how cognitive bias can cause folks to accept information without doing a lot of due diligence into the actu…

Yeah I feel like HN is being Reddit-ified with the amount of reposted clickbait that keeps making the front page :( This study in particular has made the rounds several times as you said. The study measures impact of 18 people using ChatGPT just four times over four months. I'm sorry but there is no way that is controlling for noise. I'm sympathetic to the idea that overusing AI causes atrophy but this is just clickb…

Ironically you’re now replicating the reddified response to this paper by attacking the sample size.

The sample size is fine. It’s small, yes, but normal for psychological research which is hard to do at scale.

And the difference between groups is so large that the noise would have to be at unheard levels to taint the finding.

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#547

Post by falconroar » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 7:31 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #20

A few things to note. 1. This is arxiv - before publication or peer review. Grain of salt.[0] 2. 18 participants per cohort 3. 54 participants total Given the low N and the likelihood that this is drawn from 18-22 year olds attending MIT, one should expect an uphill battle for replication and for generalizability. Further, they are brain scanning during the experiment, which is an uncomfortable/out-of-the-norm experi…

Essential context. So many variables here with very naive experimental procedure. Also "Cognitive Decline" is never mentioned in the paper.

An equally valid conclusion is "People are Lazier at Writing Essays When Provided with LLMs".

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#548

Post by dns_snek » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 7:36 AM UTC

That would not surprise me at all given what I've observed in a couple of people who outsource the thinking part to LLMs. One of them has dropped at least 20 IQ points and went from being able to grasp complex concepts with ease to needing an LLM to confirm that indeed, 2+2=4 (only somewhat hyperbolic).

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#549

Post by dns_snek » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 7:48 AM UTC

sudosteph wrote: post #88

Meanwhile my main use cases for AI outside of work: - Learning how to solder - Learning how to use a multimeter - Learning to build basic circuits on breadboxes - learning about solar panels, mppt, battery management system, and different variations of li-on batteries - learning about LoRa band / meshtastic / how to build my own antenna And every single one of these things I've learned I've also applied practically t…

Your use of LLMs is distinctly different than the use being described here (in a good way).

You might ask "What do I need to pay attention to when designing this type of electronic circuit", the people at risk of cognitive decline instead ask "design this electronic circuit for me".

I firmly believe that the the latter group will suffer observable cognitive decline over the span of a few years unless they continue to exercise their brain in the same ways they used to, and I think the majority won't bother to do that - why spend much effort when little effort do trick?

Re: MIT Study Finds AI Use Reprograms the Brain, Leading to Cognitive Decline

#550

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 04, 2025, 9:01 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #543

intended wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah you are an old one. I was born later, and missed this phase of our history. This reminds me of back 11,500 years ago, when people used to worship the sharper or bigger pieces of obsidian. They felt the biggest piece would win them the biggest hunt. They forgot that the size of the tool mattered less than mastery of the hunt. Why the best hunter could take down a moving mattress with just the right words, string an…

On a more serious note, here in India most millennials/boomers remember taking a Engineering Drawing class in second semester Engineering courses. It would involve using a real drafter, real calculations and making real drawings. Isometric projects and all. I remember it took me like 4 nights of standing to make Isometric projections of a landing gear strut. I wondered if pursuing an Engineering degree was even worth…

[deleted]