Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

541–550 of 727 posts

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#541

Post by red-iron-pine »

hlhdlhcohcv wrote: post #506
0xffff2 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Credit scores are used for a lot more than finances. Such as? I'm wracking my brain, but I can't think of a single non-financial situation where someone has asked to pull my credit.

housing? security clearance? preemployment checks?

housing is definitely a thing -- arguably the largest / main use of a credit score.

clearances don't apply to the population on the whole -- you have to willing apply to a cleared role. and you're going to be spending the gov's money and handling secrets, it makes sense to see if they can handle said money, cuz if they can't they'll sell secrets

I've never heard of a pre-emplyment check requiring a credit score. sexually harassing a fellow employee and getting fired will not end up on your credit as long as you can pay bills, and even if you can't, the lack of bills is what shows up, not bad work behavior

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#542

Post by NoGravitas »

jl6 wrote: post #380
aslannn wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you're in this category in the US (equivalent is being on some kind of arbitrary list that you're not allowed to see and have no way to appeal) your life will also be horrible.

The US being imperfect, or currently on an authoritarian swing, in no way makes it equivalent to countries that are all-in on authoritarianism. The US is still among the very best places in the world to be a minority, politically active, or in legal trouble.

I think you are greatly underestimating how hard it has been, historically, in the US, to be a minority, politically active, or in legal trouble. Note that in the Cold War, many people, especially minorities, were indefinitely imprisoned with show trials (e.g. Mumia Abu-Jamal, Assata Shakur, Leonard Peltier) or extrajudicially killed (Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, Fred Hampton, Marsha P. Johnson, the victims of the MOVE bombing) because of being politically active.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#543

Post by NoGravitas »

hax0ron3 wrote: post #236
pharrington wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of what ICE has been doing for the last six months? And that Trump has militarized Washington DC?

Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions, and I would have very little to no fear about going to Washington DC right now, standing up on a podium, and yelling that Trump sucks while there are 100 National Guardsmen across the street from me. This is very different from what things are like in places like Russia.

> Yes, but ICE is not deporting, denaturalizing, or imprisoning US citizens for their political opinions

Not yet? Currently, they are only imprisoning and deporting legal permanent residents and people on student visas for their political opinions. But denaturalization is clearly on the table.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#544

Post by AnimalMuppet »

watwut wrote: post #443
jl6 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US being imperfect, or currently on an authoritarian swing, in no way makes it equivalent to countries that are all-in on authoritarianism. The US is still among the very best places in the world to be a minority, politically active, or in legal trouble.

How is US being a good place to be at if you are in legal trouble? It is super expensive, trial penalty is huge so you are severely motivated to sign plea deal and not push it. The punishments are huge and incarceration rates among highest in the world. Protections seems to be largely theoretical - technically you have them, practically they do not do much but make you pay more money.

"It's super expensive" is still different from "you disappear". Yes, the US system is flawed, but the difference really matters.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#545

Post by FeloniousHam »

specproc wrote: post #335
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

The superiority of democracy is not that it will produce the best leadership. It's that bad leaders can be removed by the governed.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#546

Post by NoGravitas »

asats wrote: post #481
Bukhmanizer wrote: post #92

The issue is that American media/discourse paints a very distorted view of what life under authoritarian rule is like. The truth is in many countries, unless you’re some kind of minority, politically active, or in legal trouble, day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west. But people don’t want to hear that, because we want to feel better than them. Like we wouldn’t tolerate that kind of life. Of course the…

>day-to-day life is mostly similar to life in the west The "happy path" is, the major differences start when you have any kind of a problem, then not having any functional institutions makes the experience _very_ different from the west.

How different your experience is when diverging from the "happy path" in the West depends a lot on your wealth and your skin color.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#547

Post by yachad »

Rover222 wrote: post #196
yachad wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you live in a western country you do all of that anyway. Self-censor at work and online so I don’t get fired or banned from w/e. Accept elected officials whose policies don’t match up with popular opinion and accept standard employment hierarchy.

That's very different than worrying about going to jail for life or getting disappeared.

So what? Lose your job, lose your housing.

Prison is at least 3 hots and a cot.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#548

Post by egman_ekki »

jajko wrote: post #477
specproc wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is it. I've lived under governments of a variety of different stripes in some very different parts of the world, I've lived in war zones. Day to day life has been more or less the same across all of them. You go shopping, go to work, see friends, have a few beers or maybe a smoke, eat out, go to weddings, birthdays and funerals, play sports. People run businesses, post memes. The way non-OECD, "non-democra…

> I'm not saying everywhere is identical, there's a spectrum Why such drama with many words, when all can be summed up with that. Yet somehow, people consider life much better on one side of the spectrum, while other side is considered utter shit. So much that many people are risking their lives, and some are dying just to 'move across spectrum'. It may be a hard concept to grok for typical western kids who often str…

yet, many people claim they were happier back then. At least in the country where I’m from. No options in life, no hard decisions or responsibility for their lives. Our current PM said he didn’t notice the fall of communism. shrug

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#549

Post by NoGravitas »

pastor_williams wrote: post #429
deadfoxygrandpa wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And do you think American media really distorts the "other" side more than Chinese or Russian media distorts what life in the west is like? having lived for a long time in both china and america: yes. chinese people are given a much more accurate view of life in america than americans are given an accurate view of life in china thats why there was that meme going around earlier this year when tik tok people joined…

“Reminder: On Chinese social media platforms, please do not mention sensitive topics such as politics, religion and drugs!!!” "Some Americans reported having their content blocked or accounts suspended for material deemed sensitive by RedNote, as content moderators control what the Chinese audience can see. A search on RedNote for Xi Jinping, China’s leader, comes up blank." https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacif…

America's freedom of speech is vulnerable to "flooding the zone". I don't have a good suggestion for fixing that, but I would say that as a result the average American is not any better informed than the average Chinese citizen, despite greater freedom of information.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#550

Post by causal »

hiatus wrote: post #536
causal wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey I see you're quibbling on details, maybe because you feel determined to win an argument to save face or something. I must point out that nobody here cares whether you were wrong, and digging in your heels even after multiple people provided multiple examples just drags the conversation to unproductive places. As I said in the first reply, there is very little behavior you cannot tie money to in some way, so you c…

What's your point? If people will extend you credit for things like an apartment (since there is risk you will stop paying) or for a car, it seems sensible to perform credit checks then. What else are scores used for that don't intersect with someone trusting you with their property?

Again, missing the point - it is a system that has become a centralized digital scoring mechanism. This is dangerous because it centralizes power, giving institutions that are not even under democratic control the power to punish individuals or groups as they see fit across all sectors of life.
Post reply on HN