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Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

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Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#541

Post by cwillu »

matt-attack wrote: post #476
throwway120385 wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration is a civil matter, not a criminal matter. It's not a crime per se to overstay a visa like say shoplifting or killing someone. It's more like there's a proceeding to determine whether you did overstay and then when there's a finding of fact they basically tell you you have to leave or they remove you from the country forcibly. It would be patently ridiculous to jail someone for overstaying or for working o…

You cannot be more wrong. Entering the United States without proper documentation, such as a passport or visa, is considered a federal crime under 8 U.S.C. § 1325. This statute criminalizes unauthorized entry, including entering at unauthorized times or places, evading inspection, or misrepresentation to gain entry. I would love to understand if you truly believed that no such federal statute exists, or we’re just in…

> This statute criminalizes unauthorized entry, including entering at unauthorized times or places, evading inspection, or misrepresentation to gain entry

None of which has anything to do with the matter at hand.

It. Is. Not. A. Crime. To. Overstay. A. Visa.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#542

Post by cwillu »

matt-attack wrote: post #477
nobody9999 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And since every illegal immigrant is already a criminal... >Not to be pedantic, but by definition it is, isn’t it? It is not[0]. Being present in the US without legal status is a civil infraction and not a crime. Unlawful entry is a criminal act however. That said, the vast majority of undocumented folks entered the US legally and overstayed their visas. Which is a civil issue, not a criminal one. Those who made a…

Entering the United States without proper documentation, such as a passport or visa, is considered a federal crime under 8 U.S.C. § 1325. This statute criminalizes unauthorized entry, including entering at unauthorized times or places, evading inspection, or misrepresentation to gain entry.

Repeating the same irrelevant statute doesn't make it relevant.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#543

Post by cwillu »

y-curious wrote: post #408
dkiebd wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know how it is in the states but in most places in Europe using violence against a violent person is likely to end up very badly for you, even if you are a guard and have the necessary permits and training. You are not going to risk being fined or jailed to stop some criminal from shoplifting from a store that is not even yours.

What is the role of a security guard if not to wield violence? Their equipment implies a capability for violence. Are they unable to perform their job legally in Europe?

There's a reason local rent-a-cops here hire almost exclusively seniors: they're _not_ going to go chasing someone down, they're just going to follow instructions, go for their walk around the site every 30 minutes and generally not cause trouble when they get bored.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#544

Post by wiredpancake »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #325
bevhill wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peak COVID never ended. It's more important now than ever to stay vaccinated, maintain social distance, and mask up.

COVID is down from its peak, as I understand. It's just very much not gone, and by no means less nasty. We had the opportunity to wipe it out with a short, synchronised global lockdown, and we squandered it, and now it's like plague.

From all accounts, it appears to be "less nasty". Espically with the advent of vaccines.

COVID is also nothing like the plague, that is a major illogical jump. Early pandemics, such that in the Sasanian Empire, had a 25-50 million deaths (depending what century you draw the line). The Black Death was particularly deadly, with an estimated mortality rate of 70%.

How you can suggest COVID is now the plague is just absurd. You also make a very unfounded conclusion that if we "just stayed in doors a little bit more guys!" we would of solved it. Delusional.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#545

Post by qingcharles »

criddell wrote: post #534
pixl97 wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you could, but when walmart sees you walking out the door, they'll go trace your entire route and keep the film off of each of the cameras from entrance to exit of the store. They tend to put up a very good prosecution.

In the end though, unless they stop you and find the merchandise or have you on video with the stuff outside of the store, there's no proof you stole anything. It's circumstantial which is relatively weak. Plus, Walmart doesn't prosecute anybody. They hand the evidence over to the police and the the district attorney decides if they want to prosecute. Walmart can file a civil suit which I'm wondering if that's what t…

From much experience in this, I've never seen Walmart file a civil suit.

They don't technically prosecute anyone, but in the county where I was witness to prosecutions for Walmart shop-lifting they were putting a lot of pressure on the DA office. They would bring a ton of muscle, investigators, attorneys, print outs, DVDs, etc. They would push their prosecutions hard when they wanted to.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#546

Post by qingcharles »

FireBeyond wrote: post #463
qingcharles wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a lot of discovery in these criminal cases from Walmart. They do typically wait until the loss reaches a certain point before acting and then they will come with a mountain of photos and videos showing the offender picking up the items all the way to them leaving the store on each visit. I remember one I saw where the guy was filling two shopping carts with laptops at each Walmart, each one so high he could…

I don't recall ever seeing a Wally World where the laptop boxes are just out for the taking, not in a locked cabinet. That being said, Target stores in Washington do something similar, as the threshold for felony theft is $1,000, they'll pull the trigger on LE / LP involvement if you hit that threshold over multiple events, and bring the receipts for the previous. I _somewhat_ think that's ripe to be challenged on pr…

I thought the same thing. I saw photos and videos. I couldn't see any security devices on any of the laptops, but they were piled high on both carts. I saw a spreadsheet Walmart provided of each theft (from a single offender) breaking down how many items were taken and what the total was on each theft. It was like $7000, $13000, $6000 etc etc. The offender got an offer of 6 years DOC, which is served at 50% in Illinois for non-violent. They should get an additional 6 months "good time" on top of that, so maximum 2.5 years. Bearing in mind they were selling the laptops for 50 cents on the dollar from what I understand, they probably took in maybe $30K cash for 2.5 years locked up. (also bear in mind their family will have to support them through this process with a lawyer, about $5K, and probably another $5-10K in commissary and phone calls)

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#547

Post by qingcharles »

mmmlinux wrote: post #472
qingcharles wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of a Walmart shelf stacker who ran after someone who grabbed a $5 hat on their way out. They had a run-in with the getaway car and ended up in a coma for two months and Walmart had to spend over $2m in medical bills. (the offenders were caught by police later that day, so it really wasn't worth the trouble to run after them)

If a hit and run hadn't been involved they wouldn't have gotten caught.

It's something I've thought about. It's not totally clear from the police reports. I've read them through several times and the offender had hit about seven stores that day tearing off Rogaine en masse, and the cops seemed to be on their trail already. The hit-n-run certainly would have put a flame up their ass.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#548

Post by olyjohn »

rovr138 wrote: post #185
stephen_g wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed at supermarkets here that of the dozens of times those 'you haven't scanned something' warnings have come up, only one time the item hadn't actually scanned when I thought it had. Every other time has been a false positive for me. They're pretty dodgy, the workers always seem pretty frustrated with it as they go around clearing them for people (sometimes a handful of people waiting, falsely accused by th…

The worst part for me is when they prevent you from scanning the same item twice. Yes, I want 2 boxes of cereal. I just find it easier to go to a cashier.

I always go to a cashier. Every damn time the self checkout is open, there are two or three employees standing around doing nothing while one runs around fixing all the errors and does all the ID checks. If those people has just been in a regular checkout area, all those customers waiting at self checkout would have been out of the store already. Self checkout is a fucking joke 90% of the time.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#549

Post by wizzwizz4 »

wiredpancake wrote: post #544
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID is down from its peak, as I understand. It's just very much not gone, and by no means less nasty. We had the opportunity to wipe it out with a short, synchronised global lockdown, and we squandered it, and now it's like plague.

From all accounts, it appears to be "less nasty". Espically with the advent of vaccines. COVID is also nothing like the plague, that is a major illogical jump. Early pandemics, such that in the Sasanian Empire, had a 25-50 million deaths (depending what century you draw the line). The Black Death was particularly deadly, with an estimated mortality rate of 70%. How you can suggest COVID is now the plague is just absu…

Not more: sooner (and, as clearly stated in my previous comment, less). By the time most countries were doing lockdowns, it was to prevent their local health systems from completely collapsing, not to contain and eliminate the disease in any real sense.

I think the comparison to plague is accurate, since quarantine and social distancing were effective in reducing mortality during the Black Death, as were plague vaccines.

Re: Home Depot sued for 'secretly' using facial recognition at self-checkouts

#550

Post by ryukoposting »

kube-system wrote: post #251
ryukoposting wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to encounter a self-checkout system competent enough to actually speed up the experience.

They are individually slow but highly multithreaded. The single cashier that stores hire these days may have a 10% higher clock speed, but their queue length is high.

Sounds like the problem is that we aren't hiring enough cashiers.

Using a Kroger self-checkout is tantamount to waterboarding. Hesitate for a quarter of a second before placing your item on the scale? Angry prompt. Put an item on the scanner (which itself is another scale) but it doesn't scan within half a second? Angry prompt. Get three angry prompts? Now you get a fourth angry prompt, except this one can only be dismissed by a staff member, and we've already established that they're few and far between.

I've given up on actually bagging my items while checking out. I can't rearrange anything in the bags, or move the bags, without the checkout machine throwing a hissy fit. So no, it's not actually faster, because I have to bag everything after paying for it. It totally breaks the pipeline of the checkout.

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