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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#541

Post by Saline9515 »

true_religion wrote: post #320
Saline9515 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with simulated CSAM is that there is a risk that the viewer develops a fetish for such repulsive practices. It has then destructive consequences for the viewer and, should he try to perform it, his victims. Either way, I don't see the harm of forbidding it. The web doesn't lack regular pornography alternatives, free or paid.

Gay conversion therapy, which has an entire society backing it, failed consistently despite trying pairing it with torture and social ostracism. This seems to suggest that broad sexual preferences are remarkably stable.

Why is the pornography served to each generation more violent then? It's one thing to be homosexual, it's another to be into the most extreme acts that some homosexuals perform. Do we really need porn that scenarizes incest?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#542

Post by pear01 »

gitt67887yt7bg wrote: post #525
bobthepanda wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real debate is which is worse to society, its existence or attempting to ban it. Banning porn is not going to do a whole lot. Pornography is illegal in South Korea and if anything they have some of the worst gender toxicity.

The real debate has nothing to do with porn. The only reason this started with porn, is because they knew they would get away with taking over the world while everybody is distracted by an unrelated debate. The debate is weather or not credit card providers should ever be able to blackmail independent companies, for any reason they feel like. I say no.

Should the government be able to blackmail credit card companies? Do you really think the credit card companies care where you spend your money? All they want you to do is spend more. They are trying to get out ahead of your own fellow citizens (and their government) who agree with more "censorship" and, at least in this regard, more state control. Unless you have a solution for this strain of American politics focusing on credit card companies is, in this situation, missing the point.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#543

Post by man4 »

mixologist wrote: post #467

This actually took longer than I thought. It is really weird that for all my adult content I have to go to a dedicated adult store, yet for games I can find them on Steam and gog where kids shop for games. You don’t get porn movies on Netflix or Disney stream. You don’t get adult toys in your local grocery store. Why do we sell porn on Steam? Why haven’t game stores just spin off separate store front for porn content…

[dead]

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#544

Post by Nasrudith »

simplify wrote: post #504
pstuart wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the claim is "this is damaging to society" There is some truth to that, but if one were to operate at that level then Facebook would be illegal. Porn is a convenient thing to weaponize anger in your constituents (just like babies not being born). It pushes emotional triggers and riles people up and then they're waiting to be told what to hate/attack next.

> if one were to operate at that level then Facebook would be illegal. Sounds great, where do I sign? Sure ban porn, but IMO ban social media first. Or at the very least, mandate educational materials on it. Kids grow up thinking it's important and it ruins their lives. Brainrot content deadens their sensory inputs. Same thing needs to happen with AI; we seriously need some required education in these spaces.

I would rather we ban censors from positions of power.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#545

Post by anonym29 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #518
anonym29 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you defending the morality of authoritarian states imprisoning journalists and nonviolent political opposition groups? It's one thing to recognize that it happens, another to recognize the practice as legitimate, virtuous, or even desirable. To be clear, I'm not accusing you of promoting these practices, just asking you to clarify your position.

I am expressing neither support nor opposition to any particular policy position in that comment, merely putting forth the general principle that any time you find yourself to be an outlier you should very carefully examine how that came to be. It's a natural extension of Chesterton's fence. I think it also follows from such a principle that in general the relevant reasoning should be explicitly articulated when disc…

What gives you the impression that I might be offering my critiques lightly or arrogantly, as opposed to only after arriving at them through extensive, careful, and deliberate thought?

Humans engaged in tribalistic groupthink committing moral atrocities is a tale as old as time.

It is never wise to accept a majority or status quo position reflexively without thoroughly interrogating the ideas held within. A great deal of majority positions are morally reprehensible and ethically indefensible, and that has always been the case throughout human history.

Human sacrifices of the innocent were not a "different culture", they were barbaric murders that were always wrong. They were also normative in much of the world for much of human history.

The values espoused (but not always upheld) by western societies that many of us take for granted today are the exception to the rules throughout human history - rules that promoted needless bloodshed, widespread suffering, and persecution of the innocent.

It is not arrogant to assert that loss of innocent human life is reprehensible and the societies that normalize it should be condemned. To assert otherwise isn't simply innocuously defending pluralism, it's defending atrocities.

All life is inherently valuable and I will not apologize for asserting that, no matter how many billions of people disagree for tribalistic, persecutory reasons.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#546

Post by Saline9515 »

trothamel wrote: post #428
Saline9515 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with simulated CSAM is that there is a risk that the viewer develops a fetish for such repulsive practices. It has then destructive consequences for the viewer and, should he try to perform it, his victims. Either way, I don't see the harm of forbidding it. The web doesn't lack regular pornography alternatives, free or paid.

Two arguments I can think of: The first is that you're banning free expression, and banning free expression is inherently harmful. There's also the displacement theory - with the legal content being much more accessible and regulated to ensure minors aren't involved in production, it displaces illegal content that does harm minors.

I don't think the theory behind "free expression" covers things such as CSAM or incest porn. It's ok to say that content that aim to excite the viewer about minor abuse should be forbidden.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#547

Post by johnnyanmac »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #470
johnnyanmac wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you want to fix this, you actually have to organize and go after the payment processors, because it's not going to be solved by writing essays in the comments or waiting for Steam to suddenly develop a spine. Okay. If you have any wisdom or ideas, I'd love to hear them. But as is, this comment is about as effective as mine on fighting Visa/Mastercard. "Just come together and yell at Steam!" I'm not opposed to act…

I don't want to sound patronizing, but how would you break the task of forming an activist group down into manageable chunks?

That's what I was essentially asking. I'd want to start with small actions that feel realistic. I know it's not gonna just pop up overnight, so more reason to break it down.

If none of us know, then the next alternative is "can we point to any existing organizations to throw support at"? Or at the very least, an adjacent organization who can tell us steps to take?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#548

Post by nulld3v »

rustystump wrote: post #469
nosignono wrote: post #205

This is absolutely a wedge to censor LGBTQ+ content. If you can separately argue that adult content should be blocked and LGBTQ+ themes are for adults, then you can block queer content online en masse. Visa and Mastercard have too much power, and are too willing to capitulate.

[flagged]

LGBTQ+ treats incest no differently than how everyone else treats it. It's still generally taboo, and since it's not a sexual minority suffering from unjust persecution/discrimination, it is not offered any special protections.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#549

Post by gsich »

mixologist wrote: post #467

This actually took longer than I thought. It is really weird that for all my adult content I have to go to a dedicated adult store, yet for games I can find them on Steam and gog where kids shop for games. You don’t get porn movies on Netflix or Disney stream. You don’t get adult toys in your local grocery store. Why do we sell porn on Steam? Why haven’t game stores just spin off separate store front for porn content…

>You don’t get porn movies on Netflix or Disney stream. You don’t get adult toys in your local grocery store. Why do we sell porn on Steam?

Why not? One shouldn't confuse games with real life.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#550

Post by johnnyanmac »

Saline9515 wrote: post #535
johnnyanmac wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same "violence in video games" argument, no? I'm open to reading studies on the issue, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that simulated CSAM "converts" people who otherwise is not attracted to children.

Violence in video games is quite different from paraphilias. While they usually have an origin deep buried in the psyche, exposure to specific types of porn can act as a trigger and reinforcement to it.

I fail to see how. We have entire sections of our brain dedicated to aggression and adrenaline management. Knowing how to recognize a threat, fight, and flight is every bit as base as knowing how to breed.
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