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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#541

Post by Forgeties79 »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #518
Forgeties79 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always viewed it as less a discussion about any sort of real defined “quality metric” and more companies asking “what is the least amount of time, money, and effort we can put in before people stop buying it?” Even more simply put: what is the worst version of the product that people are willing to buy?

There is some logic to not over-engineering a product or using more materials than necessary to produce something. I wonder why that seems to have manifested in an anti-consumer application some places.

$$$

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#542

Post by Forgeties79 »

xp84 wrote: post #446
Forgeties79 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always viewed it as less a discussion about any sort of real defined “quality metric” and more companies asking “what is the least amount of time, money, and effort we can put in before people stop buying it?” Even more simply put: what is the worst version of the product that people are willing to buy?

Yes! And because all competitors besides niche artisanal players are simultaneously playing that same exact game (or in many cases, there are 10 brands all made by 3 conglomerates), people have little chance of actually stopping buying the product even when its quality level dips to absurdity. People will “stop buying” one brand and buy another, but the root of their frustrations is identical across brands and manufa…

Yeah for a lot of stuff every vendor is making basically the same thing the same way.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#543

Post by WalterBright »

klik99 wrote: post #534
hliyan wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how I see it: in the absence of growth in market share or cost-reducing innovation, the only remaining strategy for profit maximization is the delivering of progressively lower quality products for progressively higher prices. This obviously destroys the brand over time, but brands can be recycled/reinvented. A purely rational and self-interested (i.e. unencumbered by moral sentiment or empathy) economic agent…

This is exactly what I came to say - growth as the primary goal DOES create innovation, until innovation in that field yields diminishing returns or bottoms out completely, then it creates shittier and shittier product. The entire American version of capitalism is built around growth as the primary goal, which did great things, but now (unequally, some sectors are still innovating) is creating more and more shitty th…

Do socialist economies produce superior products?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#545

Post by etbebl »

cyanydeez wrote: post #449
hliyan wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how I see it: in the absence of growth in market share or cost-reducing innovation, the only remaining strategy for profit maximization is the delivering of progressively lower quality products for progressively higher prices. This obviously destroys the brand over time, but brands can be recycled/reinvented. A purely rational and self-interested (i.e. unencumbered by moral sentiment or empathy) economic agent…

You need to factor in planned obsolescence. The fundamentals of the market simply does not make sense when your product is cheap and lifecycle is long. Think of the LED bulb. It would make more sense for the government to manage the few resources needed and for them to maximize the lifecycle of a lightbulb.

It seems to me that for products that in general are cheap to buy as well as produce, companies would want to make these products somewhat longer-lasting to gain a better reputation and then make more sales and larger profits on more expensive items.

I think the fundamental problem here is that nobody trusts brands anymore because we have been trained by strategies like market segmentation and private equity cost cutting that the vast majority of brands don't consistently indicate quality. That product A could be fine and a very similar-looking product B could be horrible, and any company or even product could become shit at any moment. Breyers in the US is a great example - they sell real (though still watery) ice cream in the cartons that say "naturals," and all the other very similar looking cartons are full of crap artificial frozen dairy dessert. They had a very strong brand, and they decided it was time to cash out that brand goodwill by cheaping out, but deceptively so they could ride it out for a few decades, at which point who cares?

This has led to a situation where companies don't make any attempt anymore to gain a reputation for the quality of their products, because it's futile to convince the public that they can trust you. And also, they have to compete much more equally with alphabet soup brands on Amazon making the absolute cheapest version of products at the lowest margins (and labor costs). So why would anyone make a better lightbulb that no one will buy because it's $2 more expensive?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#546

Post by WalterBright »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #360
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are pointing directly at the philosophical bedrock of western civilization, something which most white collar elites implicitly believe but don't state outright. It shows up right away in the article: > ... quality is an inherently subjective concept, as it depends on the preferences of each consumer. For most of history, people believed the opposite. For thousands of years, people in every major civilization bel…

I’ve always viewed it as less a discussion about any sort of real defined “quality metric” and more companies asking “what is the least amount of time, money, and effort we can put in before people stop buying it?” Even more simply put: what is the worst version of the product that people are willing to buy?

Many products come in 3 levels of quality:

1. the stripper, designed for a minimum price that will draw people into the showroom

2. the luxe, which has every feature, designed for the people who don't care about the price

3. the midrange, which is what most people wind up buying

This strategy maximizes the profit that can be made. You'll see it from refrigerators to cars.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#547

Post by WalterBright »

Razengan wrote: post #515
dennis_jeeves2 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good analysis... (Side note: I was looking at your comment history and it appears that most of your comments are down-voted, somebody has an axe to grind)

This "grudge downvoting" shit has been a thing on HN for years, with Dang etc refusing to acknowledge it. Might as well join in on it yourself till they notice :)

It happens to me, sometimes. It doesn't work very well because I couldn't care less about my karma points.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#548

Post by torginus »

microflash wrote: post #238
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

This has been especially pronounced in medical equipments where there’s this unnecessary race to introduce “digital experiences”. An example is hearing aids. A few years ago, it was relatively easy to get an analog model with dedicated volume buttons and off switch. Now, most of the models come without off switch and need Bluetooth pairing with an app installed on your phone. What used to be plug and play is now a cl…

My favourite example of this was the digital pregnancy test - which instead of having a test strip that changes color based on a chemical reaction, had the same test strip surrounded by a photodiode and a LED, which detected the color change and displayed the results on the screen.

People still buy it because it's digital so it must be better.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#549

Post by rr808 »

zkmon wrote: post #112

I live in a developed country. People buy a new home here, and find the kitchen counter top surface bulges up easily when a hot plate is placed on it. Turns out that the surface is a laminate that is not heat resistant. Family business houses used to invest in long-term success through brand, reputation and durability. Startups or hired CEOs focus on short-term goals and invest in creating superficial perceptions tha…

> kitchen counter top surface bulges up easily when a hot plate is placed on it

This is pretty normal when I was growing up. You should never put a hot anything on a countertop.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#550

Post by rr808 »

phtrivier wrote: post #2

Begs an interesting question : some people can still afford quality items that last (namely, the people that sell throwaway shit to everyone else ; or, more precisely, the people who earn rents from companies that sell throwaway shit etc...) Are things getting shittier for them, too ? Are luxury brands immune to "energy is getting expensive, and corporate needs to buy shares back and increase dividend, so we have to…

No one wants to pay for them. The $20 screwdriver is the same or better quality than the one 50 years ago. People would now have the option to buy the $1 screwdriver and then complain it doesn't last.
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