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LLM Inevitabilism

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Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#541

Post by alonsonic »

nyarlathotep_ wrote: post #526
lsy wrote: post #63

I think two things can be true simultaneously: 1. LLMs are a new technology and it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle with that. It's difficult to imagine a future where they don't continue to exist in some form, with all the timesaving benefits and social issues that come with them. 2. Almost three years in, companies investing in LLMs have not yet discovered a business model that justifies the massive expen…

I do wonder where in the cycle this all is given that we've now seen yet another LLM/"Agentic" VSCode fork. I'm genuinely surprised that Code forks and LLM cli things are seemingly the only use case that's approached viability. Even a year ago, I figured there'd be something else that's emerged by now.

But there are a ton of LLM powered products in the market.

I have a friend in finance that uses LLM powered products for financial analysis, he works in a big bank. Just now anthropic released a product to compete in this space.

Another friend in real estate uses LLM powered lead qualifications products, he runs marketing campaigns and the AI handles the initial interaction via email or phone and then ranks the lead in their crm.

I have a few friends that run small businesses and use LLM powered assistants to manage all their email comms and agendas.

I've also talked with startups in legal and marketing doing very well.

Coding is the theme that's talked about the most in HN but there are a ton of startups and big companies creating value with LLMs

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#542

Post by [deleted] »

aldousd666 wrote: post #536

AI is the future, I don't care who is dubious of it. LLMs in their Transformer variations may not survive the long run, but LLMs are not the whole of AI. lets do keep in mind that today's limitations become yesterdays speed bumps. Perhaps there's a new architecture or a tweak to the existing one that gets us the rest of the way there. There has never been this rapid of a dislocation in capital investment that didn't…

[deleted]

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#543

Post by evantbyrne »

keiferski wrote: post #107

One of the negative consequences of the “modern secular age” is that many very intelligent, thoughtful people feel justified in brushing away millennia of philosophical and religious thought because they deem it outdated or no longer relevant. (The book A Secular Age is a great read on this, btw, I think I’ve recommended it here on HN at least half a dozen times.) And so a result of this is that they fail to notice t…

I'm pretty bearish on the idea that AGI is going to take off anytime soon, but I read a significant amount of theology growing up and I would not describe the popular essays from e.g., LessWrong as religious in nature. I also would not describe them as appearing poorly read. The whole "look they just have a new god!" is a common trope in religious apologetics that is usually just meant to distract from the author's own poorly constructed beliefs. Perhaps such a comparison is apt for some people in the inevitable AGI camp, but their worst arguments are not where we should be focusing.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#544

Post by ehutch79 »

alonsonic wrote: post #505
lsy wrote: post #63

I think two things can be true simultaneously: 1. LLMs are a new technology and it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle with that. It's difficult to imagine a future where they don't continue to exist in some form, with all the timesaving benefits and social issues that come with them. 2. Almost three years in, companies investing in LLMs have not yet discovered a business model that justifies the massive expen…

I'm confused with your second point. LLM companies are not making any money from current models? Openai generates 10b USD ARR and has 100M MAUs. Yes they are running at a loss right now but that's because they are racing to improve models. If they stopped today to focus on optimization of their current models to minimize operating cost and monetizing their massive user base you think they don't have a successful busi…

Revenue is _NOT_ Profit

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#545

Post by bluefirebrand »

77pt77 wrote: post #414
shaky-carrousel wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hours of time saved, and you learned nothing in the process. You are slowly becoming a cog in the LLM process instead of an autonomous programmer. You are losing autonomy and depending more and more on external companies. And one day will come that, with all that power, they'll set whatever price or conditions they want. And you will accept. That's the future. And it's not inevitable.

> Hours of time saved, and you learned nothing in the process Point and click "engineer" 2.0 We all know this. Eventually someone has to fix the mess and it won't be him. He will be management by then.

> We all know this

Unfortunately, reading this thread and many other comments on similar articles, it seems like many of us have no clue about this

We are in for a rough ride until we figure this out

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#546

Post by Herring »

NoGravitas wrote: post #521
Herring wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars were/are inevitable. But they did massive damage to human fitness, which we still haven't recovered from. I intentionally don't own one, and at least some places in the world are starting to wake up and restrict them and build walkable cities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0&ab_channel=NotJu...

They also destroyed our cities, and are one of the major contributors to the destruction of the climate to which we are adapted.

I just keep looking at this chart

https://data.worldhappiness.report/chart

The US is steadily becoming more and more unhappy. The solutions are fairly basic and fundamental - fix inequality, green spaces, walkable cities, healthcare, education, climate change etc but Americans are too busy chasing tech/military solutions. This country is the richest it has ever been, but it's going to be quite rocky for the foreseeable future.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#547

Post by layer8 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #495

People like communicating in natural language. LLMs are the first step in the movement away from the "early days" of computing where you needed to learn the logic based language and interface of computers to interact with them. That is where the inevitabilism comes from. No one* wants to learn how to use a computer, they want it to be another entity that they can just talk to. *I'm rounding off the <5% who deeply lov…

People also like reliable and deterministic behavior, like when they press a specific button it does the same thing 99.9% of the time, and not slightly different things 90% of the time and something rather off the mark 10% of the time (give and take some percentage points). It's not clear that LLMs will get us to the former.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#548

Post by AnimalMuppet »

imiric wrote: post #112
Animats wrote: post #46

There may be an "LLM Winter" as people discover that LLMs can't be trusted to do anything. Look for frantic efforts by companies to offload responsibility for LLM mistakes onto consumers. We've got to have something that has solid "I don't know" and "I don't know how to do this" outputs. We're starting to see reports of LLM usage having negative value for programmers, even though they think it's helping. Too much eff…

> Look for frantic efforts by companies to offload responsibility for LLM mistakes onto consumers. Not just by companies. We see this from enthusiastic consumers as well, on this very forum. Or it might just be astroturfing, it's hard to tell. The mantra is that in order to extract value from LLMs, the user must have a certain level of knowledge and skill of how to use them. "Prompt engineering", now reframed as "con…

It's probably not astroturfing, or at least not all astroturfing. At least some software engineers tend to do this. We've seen it before, with Lisp, and then with Haskell. "It doesn't work for you? You just haven't tried it for long enough to become enlightened!" Enthusiastic supporters that assume that if was highly useful for them, it must be for everyone in all circumstances, and anyone who disagrees just hasn't been enlightened yet.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#549

Post by dcow »

lsy wrote: post #63

I think two things can be true simultaneously: 1. LLMs are a new technology and it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle with that. It's difficult to imagine a future where they don't continue to exist in some form, with all the timesaving benefits and social issues that come with them. 2. Almost three years in, companies investing in LLMs have not yet discovered a business model that justifies the massive expen…

The difference is that the future is now with LLMs. There is a microwave (some multiple) in almost every kitchen in the world. The Concord served a few hundred people a day. LLMs are already ingrained into hundreds of millions if not billions of people’s lives, directly and indirectly. My dad directly uses LLMs multiple times a week if not daily in an industry that still makes you rotate your password every 3 months. It’s not a question of whether the future will have them, it’s a question of whether the future will get tired of them.

Re: LLM Inevitabilism

#550

Post by raincole »

sshine wrote: post #310
jillesvangurp wrote: post #301

LLMs are here, they aren't going away. Therefore they are part of our future. The real question is what else is in our future and whether LLMs are all we need. I think the answer to that is a solid no and the people phrasing the future in faster/better LLMs are probably missing the point as much as people thinking of cars as coaches with faster horses. That future isn't inevitable but highly likely given on the traje…

A few things that are here: - LLMs - Cryptocurrencies - Mobile phones Neither are going away, all are part of our future, but not equally. The inevitabilism argument is that cryptocurrencies were just as hyped a few years ago as LLMs are now, and they're much less here now. So if you have an objection to LLMs being hyped and not wanting to use them, there's a real case they may slide into the background as a curious…

Crypto was absolutely not where LLM is now. It's historical revisionism.
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