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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#541

Post by nextos »

daedrdev wrote: post #261
paxys wrote: post #69

Harvard as an institution is older than the USA. It will survive 4 years of a lunatic's presidency.

This is quite literally the appeal to tradition or inertia fallacy. Just because they've been around for a while does not mean they are not facing an existential threat. Every structure humans create will one day collapse. This certainly looks difficult for Harvard and could be their end because there is no divine protection, only the decision that will be made by an extremely conservative Supreme Court and the willi…

Appeal to tradition is reasonable in this context because of the Lindy effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect.

The longer something has been around, the more likely it's going to be around in the future.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#542

Post by rsanek »

shnock wrote: post #466
kurtis_reed wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things that have been around for a long time are the ones most likely to continue to exist, it's not a fallacy.

They are not, that is expectation of future performance based upon past. Reality is too complex and dynamic for that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#543

Post by firesteelrain »

dmvdoug wrote: post #434
firesteelrain wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under 8 U.S.C. § 1372, the SEVIS (Student and Exchange Visitor Information System) program requires schools to report data on international students including what DHS has been asking for. Harvard may argue that DHS’s request was overly broad, lacked due process, or sought information beyond what the law permits. 8 CFR § 214.3(g) and § 214.4(b), which require schools to maintain and furnish records “as required by th…

The actual statute provides the categories of information schools must provide about their students. It’s not a “whatever we happen to ask for” list. See 8 U.S.C. § 1372. Needless to say, “protest activity” is not included.

We do not know yet what Harvard did and did not respond to. All we have is their word. If they didn’t provide what was required after DHS demanded what was legally required to be provided then DHS is on solid legal ground. I can’t really defend not providing something that isn’t called out as part of the law though

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#544

Post by [deleted] »

delichon wrote: post #418
xhkkffbf wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend is a big Harvard alum. He says that most of his classmates are very unhappy with the direction of the university. So in his circle the alumni may be cheering this on. Maybe not the extremism but the general idea of telling Harvard that it needs to get back to truth-seeking.

Bill Ackman may be the most visible. Billionaire hedge fund manager. He's a Jew who is horrified by the school's tolerance for pro Hamas protests. He was a big Democrat supporter before that, including for Obama, Booker, and Cuomo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ackman

[deleted]

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#545

Post by mikrl »

malfist wrote: post #508
iAMkenough wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you speak out against the government, the government will retaliate. Simple as that.

That is not how it is supposed to work in the US.

There are historical precedents though:

>1798

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts

>1918

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918

>>notably speech and the expression of opinion that cast the government or the war effort in a negative light or interfered with the sale of government bonds

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#546

Post by neumann »

kristopolous wrote: post #516
kochb wrote: post #20

Don’t miss this bit. Currently enrolled students are going to need to find a new university. > In a news release, the Department of Homeland Security sent a stark message to Harvard’s international students: “This means Harvard can no longer enroll foreign students, and existing foreign students must transfer or lose their legal status.”

Ah yes, this is how we will be competitive - defunding universities, deporting the best and brightest, dismantling education, and cutting off trade. I mean seriously, if a malicious saboteur was running things, what would the differences be?

They (the current administration) doesn't want to be competitive. They want to be in full control and willing to destroy any institution, organization or person that opposes them, internal or external.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#547

Post by slg »

nashashmi wrote: post #312
neilv wrote: post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

[flagged]

Evangelical Christians are a huge voting block in the US and might be even more supportive of the current Israeli regime than the average Israeli. I wouldn’t necessarily conclude that Israel is controlling the American government as directly as you’re suggesting.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#549

Post by iterance »

nashashmi wrote: post #416
moshegramovsky wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know any Israelis? What makes you think Israelis are behind this?

[flagged]

How on earth did you come to the conclusion that this person is "affiliated with Israel"? Surely not because their username is Moshe, right?

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#550

Post by geodel »

jorblumesea wrote: post #493
jaoane wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not surprising that people chose being able to afford food over intellectualism.

Americans can afford food. We are nowhere close to 19th century french peasant levels of problems. Imagine throwing 300 years of democracy and tradition out the window because food prices went up 30%. It went up all over the world but America is the only place that is actively throwing bricks through our own windows. reads more like a childish temper tantrum than any coherent political move.

I think poet Maya Angelou got this right with:

“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

Seems like lot of voters weren't feeling good in previous administration.

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