America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back • Hacker News Board

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#541

Post by nottorp » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:16 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #529

nottorp wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To sell in Europe, we must register for their tax system and nominate a legal representative. American companies? Register for EU tax system? I can buy from anyone in the US and worldwide for that matter, and as long as they're willing to figure out shipping they don't need to register anywhere, I can handle taxes myself when receiving. What "AI" did they use to write this?

You can’t handle VAT rebates on your own, but America lacking a VAT system itself can’t really take advantage of that.

What VAT rebates if i import something into the EU?

It says "to sell into Europe" not "to buy from Europe". In first case I, the EU buyer, owe VAT.

In second case whoever buys may be owed a VAT rebate. But it's not selling any more.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#542

Post by nmeofthestate » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:17 PM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #93

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #38

This pretty much mirrors what a friend of mine said (he is a recently-retired Co-CEO of a medium-sized manufacturing business). He's been telling me this, for years. It's not a secret. The information has been out there, for ages. I'm surprised that the administration didn't understand this.

> I'm surprised that the administration didn't understand this. Why would you assume they don't understand? Every time they're questioned about the tariffs the narrative shifts. We have a trade deficit, we're getting ripped off, we want to bring back domestic manufacturing jobs, we'll automate them with robotics and AI, we're playing hardball to negotiate a better trade deal and get rid of fentanyl, it's a matter of…

I genuinely don't believe there's five-dimensional chess happening here. The problem is simply that the US president is a repugnant, stupid, erratic egotist who's surrounded himself with nasty people of varying levels of intelligence, with stupid ideas about how to run the country, and this is the policy result.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#543

Post by moomin » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:18 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #362

pjc50 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> making logical arguments in this environment feels almost pointless. Unfortunately this is the culmination of social media as a controversy machine, that promotes the worst arguments. > ideological purity tests like required DEI statements Example? There's a controversy industry that cherry picks the worst examples of student-politics excess in these regards and then carefully conflates it with university policy. A…

> Example? I literally linked an article in my comment that had an overview, but here is a more specific one that addresses diversity statements in particular: https://reason.com/2022/09/30/mandated-diversity-statement-d... > As well as the sad truth that as soon as you take away "DEI" requirements the segregationists come back and purge the library, delete all the black Medal of Honor recipients from the website, et…

So… an incident not involving a university in any way is your example of universities jumping the shark?

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#544

Post by susisjzbsbs » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:18 PM UTC

myrmidon wrote: post #435

mantas wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want to make hypothetical shoes? Fine. One day soldiers may end up marching barefooted and loosing a battle though. IMO the global economy eventually self-levels. Either you go up the chain so far that you eventually go off the rails by being unable to make basic stuff. And eventually being eaten by more hungry people with the basic skills. Or you keep yourself down by forcing yourself to not loose basic skills…

You misunderstand me. The US is making shoes-- just not as many as it imports from Vietnam or China. In fact enough shoes get made locally to export about 1$ billion worth of them (while ~$20 billion are spent on imports). But I don't see the point in throwing billions of dollars from taxes at this industry just to make all those shoes here-- that is stupid (because the jobs that would create are not gonna be very de…

> In fact enough shoes get made locally to export about 1$ billion worth of them

We have far more shoes than we need.

> the jobs that would create are not gonna be very desirable, they are gonna drive up costs all over

Only because our government is run by billionaires. Elect politicians that care about the median American and this problem can be resolved quickly.

> I also think it is extremely unhealthy to baby an industry long-term by isolating it from competition like this.

This “babying” you mention results in decent working conditions and guaranteed jobs for Americans. It’s a trade off I think is worth it, as your proposal disproportionately benefits the 1%.

> I know better than market economies what ought to be produced

Have you looked at the astronomical surplus of useless goods we have here? Those come at the cost of labor that could be put towards jobs that benefit all Americans (building more homes, cheaper childcare, cheaper food, etc). Again you’re arguing for a status quo that is designed to grow the wealth gap and make billionaires richer. Essentially trickle down economics.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#545

Post by bananalychee » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:19 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #301

like_any_other wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight. It's annoying Americans were given only two choices - offshoring is great and let's keep doing it, and, as you say, the opposite, meth-fueled let's bring back manufacturing overnight. The kind of slow and steady protection and promotion of home-grown industry that China and most of Asia so successfully used…

This is the part that is so frustrating to me, and not just with regards to tariffs. It's that I see the extremes being so laughably bad (though not necessarily equally - I'm not "both sides"-ing this), and more ludicrously bad is that I've seen positions that don't follow these extremes as being derided now as "centrism". E.g. before the administration's attack on higher education, I do believe a lot of elite univer…

Tangential comment, but I now see people adding disclaimers reiterating their political affiliation to their posts regularly and I want to say that you shouldn't have to justify bilateral criticism. It doesn't imply equal magnitude, and it's only taken that way by bullies in dogmatic bubbles.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#546

Post by insane_dreamer » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:20 PM UTC

ImJamal wrote: post #527

insane_dreamer wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20% isn't so bad; the way it's usually portrayed in the media it sounds more like 90% of posts require such statements

If a college allocated a minimum of 20% of their jobs to whites, would you still say it wasn't too bad?

If we'd enslaved whites and then turned them second class citizens with minimal rights and very few economic opportunities until fairly recently, putting them in conditions that make it very difficult for them to achieve equal opportunity, then yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#547

Post by Sharlin » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:20 PM UTC

rickdeckard wrote: post #137

pjc50 wrote: post #35

> China generates over twice as much electricity per person today as the United States. Why? This appears to be completely wrong? All the stats I can find say that the US has about 4x the per capita electricity generation of China. Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight. > If you’re building a new factory in the United States, your investment will a…

> China generates over twice as much electricity per person today as the United States. Why? >> This appears to be completely wrong? All the stats I can find say that the US has about 4x the per capita electricity generation of China. I believe the comparison is absolute production, not per person. Anything else would be odd. Considering China has 4x the capita of US it would mean that in absolute terms China is prod…

Well, they are making all the stuff for the rest of the world!

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#548

Post by blindriver » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:24 PM UTC

The amount of pooh-poohing of this idea is even more than I would have expected from HN, despite tech’s love of belittling others ideas.

The reason we need manufacturing is because the middle class is decimated. None of us tech workers feel it because we don’t live in neighborhoods that have been decimated by it. We have all benefitted from globalization immensely but we don’t have neighbors, families or friends that have been destroyed by it.

Too many people say it will take “years” to get factories operational. That’s why Elon is there. He knows and has done this, to point out which regulations need to be axed in order to improve the time to market for new factories. Trump will listen to him and get rid of any regulation that doesn’t make sense, or even regulations that do make sense but take too much time. For better or worse factory building will be faster over the next 3 years.

Now that we have these greenfields for new manufacturing opportunities, instead of standing there with your arms crossed, shaking your head why the idea won’t work, how can you take advantage of this new opportunity to get rich?

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#549

Post by tarriffnomore » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:26 PM UTC

gabrielgio wrote: post #468

lerp-io wrote: post #443

earth doesn’t need more factories, consumer shit needs to be printed out of some sort of organic material that is able to decompose quickly.

or change the consumer habit to consume less, and/or change how things are produce in order to them last longer (reduce planned obsolescence) or even better we rebuild the system to serve human needs instead of feeding capitalism's endless growth.

[flagged]

Re: America underestimates the difficulty of bringing manufacturing back

#550

Post by y-curious » Wed, Apr 16, 2025, 2:28 PM UTC

fleek wrote: post #503

kamaal wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would interesting to know what percentage themselves or their own children wanted to work at a factory. Can tell with a huge degree of confidence for all practical purposes thats 0. Its always easy to expect other people to make sacrifices working these jobs, while imagining you and your kids working office desk jobs.

Is everyone on hacker news so entitled and privileged they cannot even imagine an American citizen wanting to work for a living? I absolutely would work a factory job if it paid 100k+ and meant owning a home someday. Instead I got 100k student loans and make 60k at a desk and I'll never have a life outside of work because I simply can't afford it. I'll be 35 this year after 12 years of working and just starting to ha…

A 100k factory job and you're calling others entitled? This is the equivalent of the famous Arrested Development skit, "what does a banana cost, $10?"