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Google is winning on every AI front

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#541

Post by anon84873628 »

ximeng wrote: post #308
netcan wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free and ads would become the main option to make money out of chatbots. So... I don't think this is certain. A surprising number of people pay for the ChatGPT app and/or competitors. It's be a >$10bn business already. Could maybe be a >$100bn business long term. Meanwhile... making mo…

Google aren’t interested in <1bn USD businesses, so it’s hard for them to build anything new as it’s pretty guaranteed to be smaller than that at first. The business equivalent of the danger of a comfortable salaried job.

If you are a business customer of Google or pay attention to things like Cloud Next that just happened, it is very clear that Google is building heavily in this area. Your statement has already been disproven.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#542

Post by jart »

dcow wrote: post #367
netcan wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free and ads would become the main option to make money out of chatbots. So... I don't think this is certain. A surprising number of people pay for the ChatGPT app and/or competitors. It's be a >$10bn business already. Could maybe be a >$100bn business long term. Meanwhile... making mo…

I don’t think “AI” as a market is “winner-takes-anything”. Seriously. AI is not a product, it’s a tool for building other products. The winners will be other businesses that use AI tooling to make better products. Does OpenAI really make sense as a chatbot company?

Seriously, humans are not a product. You hire them for building products.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#543

Post by joshdavham »

levocardia wrote: post #51

Google is winning on every front except... marketing (Google has a chatbot?), trust (who knew the founding fathers were so diverse?), safety (where's the 2.5 Pro model card?), market share (fully one in ten internet users on the planet are weekly ChatGPT users), and, well, vibes (who's rooting for big G, exactly?). But I will admit, Gemini Pro 2.5 is a legit good model. So, hats off for that.

My hesitancy to adopt Gemini, despite being a heavy GCP and workspace user, is I kinda lost trust when trying to use their earlier models (I don't even remember those models' names). I just remember the models were just so consistently bad and obviously hallucinated more than 50% of the time.

Maybe Gemini is finally better, but I'm not exactly excited to give it a try.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#544

Post by anon84873628 »

ezst wrote: post #490
amelius wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demand is there. People are already becoming addicted to this stuff.

For many, this stuff is mostly about copilot being shoved down everyone's throats via ms office obnoxious ads and distractions, and I haven't yet heard of anyone liking it or perceiving it as an improvement. We are now years into this, so my bets are on the thing fading away slowly and becoming a taboo at Microsoft.

Many recent HN articles about how middle managers are already becoming addicted and forcing it on their peons. One was about the game dev industry in particular.

In my work I see semi-technical people (like basic python ability) wiring together some workflows and doing fairly interesting analytical things that do solve real problems. They are things that could have been done with regular code already but weren't worth the engineering investment.

In the "real world" I see people generating crummy movies and textbooks now. There is a certain type of person it definitely appeals to.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#545

Post by pixl97 »

kirubakaran wrote: post #492
jnwatson wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is a product when you slap an API on top and host it for other businesses to figure out a use case. In a gold rush, the folks that sell pickaxes make a reliable living.

> In a gold rush, the folks that sell pickaxes make a reliable living. Not necessarily. Even the original gold rush pickaxe guy Sam Brannan went broke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Brannan Sam of the current gold rush is selling pickaxes at a loss, telling the investors they'll make it up in volume.

Nvidia is selling GPUs at a loss? TSMC is going broke?

I'm pretty sure they are the pickaxe manufactures in this case.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#546

Post by SubiculumCode »

ZeroTalent wrote: post #178
CSMastermind wrote: post #156

I run every query I do through all the major models, up to 10 of them at this point. Benchmarks aside Gemini 2.5 Pro is a great model and now often produces the best code for me but it's not notably better than any of the other frontier models in my testing each of which tends to have their own strengths and weaknesses. And Google's wrapper around Gemini is easily the most frustrating of any of the major AI companies…

This is why we use Gemini and its context window as the architect and Sonnet 3.7 Max for implementation.

How does that work exactly? Gemini outlines it in pseudo code?, Sonnet writes it?

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#547

Post by SubiculumCode »

flux293m wrote: post #182
a1371 wrote: post #146

I think my experience has been different from everyone else. As an owner of a pixel phone and multiple Google accounts, I wanted this to be true. But Gemini has been super inconsistent with tasks that are trivial for Google Assistant. I even bought the $26 AI plan for my account to help with some proofreading and it's been awful compared to ChatGPT. I'm about to cancel it.

Something I've noticed is that Gemini through gemini.google.com or through the mobile apps is vastly inferior to Gemini through aistudio.google.com. Much worse handling of long contexts amongst other things. Very odd that a product that is free (AI Studio use is free), is much worse than the product I am paying 20 quid a month for. I find this to be especially true for the newer models like "gemini-2.5-pro-preview-03…

Every time I think, maybe I'll get a subscription, I read something like this and ask why?

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#548

Post by staticautomatic »

netcan wrote: post #137
codelord wrote: post #31

As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free an…

> there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free and ads would become the main option to make money out of chatbots. So... I don't think this is certain. A surprising number of people pay for the ChatGPT app and/or competitors. It's be a >$10bn business already. Could maybe be a >$100bn business long term. Meanwhile... making mo…

Contextual advertising is a known ad business model that commands higher rates and is an ideal fit for LLMs. Plus ChatGPT has a lot of volume. If there’s anyone who should be worried about pulling that off it’s Perplexity and every other small to mid-sized player.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#549

Post by zkmon »

I think Google deserves it. Didn't they come up with the foundational paper - All you need is attention? And then Colab, Tensorflow etc. Though not relevant, I remember Map-Reduce paper was also from Google, leading to big-data revolution.
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