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I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

theguardian.com

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Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#541

As a lawful permanent resident, I'm terrified of the country I've called home for a quarter century. I don't think I would have survived what the Canadian woman went through. EDIT: please call your congressperson and your senators. Tell them to stop this cruelty.

Not sure if you read the whole article. But what REALLY scared me is not this women's experience, but the stories of the other people she met there: >I met a woman who had been on a road trip with her husband. She said they had 10-year work visas. While driving near the San Diego border, they mistakenly got into a lane leading to Mexico. They stopped and told the agent they didn’t have their passports on them, expect…

Make sure you have as much documentation as possible printed in triplicate.

Where you're staying, for how long, receipts and booking confirmation. Be very careful with any text messages that might sound "shady" to the very paranoid customs people.

Have an exact itinerary showing step by step where, when, who.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#542

Why is this flagged? First of all, it's about an entrepreneur traveling to the US for a startup, which is directly relevant to a significant proportion of YCombinator founders themselves. Beyond its direct relevance to the core founding audience of HN, it is not clickbait or wantonly inflammatory, and is clearly of interest to many based on the comment activity and votes.

[flagged]

> The article skips she was selling illegal drugs.

You are the only one that comes close to even make that claim. I even bothered to Google results involving Jasmine Mooney and drugs. Zero hits.

Do you have a source or are you just making up stuff?

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#543
post #416

Why is this flagged? First of all, it's about an entrepreneur traveling to the US for a startup, which is directly relevant to a significant proportion of YCombinator founders themselves. Beyond its direct relevance to the core founding audience of HN, it is not clickbait or wantonly inflammatory, and is clearly of interest to many based on the comment activity and votes.

Possibly because the comment section will inevitably collapse into a partisan flamewar.

This is ironic. I thought there was a big push from the right for less censorship and less moderation in social media. Now we’re flagging posts because the comment section may get heated.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#544
post #520

I've been issued a five year bar for visiting someone in the US while unemployed. My immigration lawyer told me it's the weakest case he had ever seen. It took two years for the appeal to be approved. I had worked in the US on TN visas twice before, and never overstayed. It felt like they were just trying to meet a quota. Edit: I had applied for a GC years before this happened, so I think the officer thought I didn't…

Do you care to share more details? What questions did they ask and what were your replies?

The officers were "dirty". They brought me in a room to do an interrogation where one officer asked questions and the other took notes on an old computer. I literally told them: "I am not going to stay past my return date" and the officer asking questions told the officer taking notes to not write that down. They asked who my parents were, how much money I had, my employment history, what I did in the US while working on my previous TN, if I was in danger, etc.. They asked if I was applying for jobs and I said yes because I was unemployed. They then asked if the jobs were in the US and I said I would accept another TN job if I could. They call the process a "sworn statement".

For those of you who go through that, don't agree to the statement if they modified it, like mine. There's no cameras or recording devices so they can be dirty, and they abuse that fact. You have no rights at all at the border, and your assumptions on decency and honesty are not correct.

My assumption to this day is that they thought I was trying to work illegally, but this is not the case.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it’s basically “drained pool politics”. The threat of extrajudicial imprisonment objectively makes the US a less attractive place for business and will hurt us economically. The current administration simply cares more about resegregating the country and will cut off all our noses to spite our faces.

[flagged]

To be clear, this is just unabashed xenophobia; there’s absolutely no basis in fact for what you’re saying.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#546

Why is this flagged? First of all, it's about an entrepreneur traveling to the US for a startup, which is directly relevant to a significant proportion of YCombinator founders themselves. Beyond its direct relevance to the core founding audience of HN, it is not clickbait or wantonly inflammatory, and is clearly of interest to many based on the comment activity and votes.

I've noticed this a ton lately. So, so many posts completely brigaded. Regardless of if the flag is removed, it can easily stop discussion and visibility of the thread. I emailed Dang about it when I first noticed it happening, and the response...

```

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you—it's been a crazy last few days!

Users flagged that one. We can only guess why users flag things, but there have been so many posts about the current political goings-on that I think there's a lot of fatigue about it. In this case the article was more of an opinion piece than a factual report, so it's probably not one that we'd override the flags on.

Daniel (dang)

```

So the system is setup to allow this abuse. It's weaponizing the flag system. I'm sure this type of flagging is already automated by how fast some posts disappear on /new.

What's to stop someone from buying enough old accounts and mass flagging other topics to chill discussion / dissent? This could easily be done for a few grand. Rotate accounts doing the flagging and make sure they engage in some "high quality" discussion from time to time to avoid detection. Make sure the same groups of accounts aren't flagging the same posts, etc.

E.g. "I never want to see a freaking post about Rust again"...

Note: I had to wait hours to post this comment because my account was rate limited. I'm assuming because I'm involved in this discussion at all: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35157524 Now by the time I can actually post, this thread is well off the front page. This site is really good at effectively silencing people.

Dang, I'd like to know the specific comments where I am going over the line, or are too "low-quality". I have been called out once or twice over the last decade by you, and have agreed that I could have conducted myself better in those instances and tried not to fall back into those patterns.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think it's a generally rare occurrence to be confronted this way about one's belief in God in the US, having lived here most of my life. Perhaps the circumstances warrant it, but I think the statement that the nurse had "never seen a Canadian there before" and that her plight elicited that statement from the nurse is farfetched, seeing as the nurse would have seen much much worse from other detainees. The stor…

You think it's "reflexive hysteria" to be worried about fascism? Let me ask: when exactly would you recognize it? When would you "step in"? In Italy, would it be in 1919 when Mussolini founded his party? Or 1922 when he marched on Rome? Maybe 1924 when opposition leader Matteotti was murdered? Or 1926 when all other parties were banned? For Nazi Germany, was January 1933 when Hitler became Chancellor too early to wor…

Sigh, when will people stop reaching for Hitler / Mussolini analogies to explain every political development they witness in their lives? It really is a remarkable achievement by the propaganda departments of the victors of the 2nd world war that 80 years later this is still the only framework by which their citizens understand the world.

History didn't start in 1918, and if you think the political situation in the US right now is anything like interwar Europe, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#548
post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly because the comment section will inevitably collapse into a partisan flamewar.

This is ironic. I thought there was a big push from the right for less censorship and less moderation in social media. Now we’re flagging posts because the comment section may get heated.

> the comment section may get heated

Have you read this discussion? It was already heated, although the comments posted recently have been better.

Before greggyb asked why it was flagged, the top comments were about "the dumbest bully from their grade school" and "team grade school bullies". Does that not sound like flag-worthy discussion to you?

Name calling like that buries legitimate discussion, like the claim that she was not in fact eligible for a TN visa because she "worked for" a startup she co-founded (Holy! Water).

"NAFTA specifically prohibits self-employment for TN visa holders. This restriction poses challenges for entrepreneurs who wish to start a business in the United States."

https://www.visapro.com/resources/article/tn-visa-to-green-c...

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your goal is to reduce illegal immigration, a much cheaper way is to heavily fine anyone who employs someone without a valid work permit. For most illegal immigrants the motivation is economic and this would reduce that motivation and bring in money from the fines instead of incurring massive cost from detention and deportation without the negative side effect (?) of deterring tourists and legal immigrants. (Of co…

The UK does fine employers, its not sufficient to stop it because people work through dodgy contractors. The UK also fines landlords which has caused problems for people who look or sound foreign, including some British citizens (especially poor ones who tend not to have passports which are the easiest documents to check). The best proposal I have heard is to provide a cash reward to illegal immigrants for turning in…

What makes it hard to investigate the dodgy contractors? I don't fully understand why this is harder than identifying illegal immigrants.

Re: I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

#550
post #85

If the objective is to scare people off from going to the USA, then they're doing a magnificent job. I've heard other cases of people with green cards being arrested and put in terrible conditions, with absolutely no reason given. This woman was ready to go back home and not enter the US, but instead she was dragged through hell and only released because she was Canadian. All those with different passports get subjec…

Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. This is how institutionalized xenophobia looks like. The fact is, I've read very similar articles about how US treats any non-US citizens a decade or two ago. Nothing changed dramatically, people just bring these…

>Europe can offer you tons of opportunities and treat you with dignity. Good quality of life and happiness is much easier to achieve

I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent.

I detest the screaming orangutan politics of Trump and his hardcore followers but the U.S. as a whole mostly remains a fantastic melting pot destination for immigrants like it's always been. One 4-year presidency (after a largely ineffectual and sometimes laughable previous one) does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country. By that logic, barely a state in Europe would be worth recommending at all given the continent's none too distant history or barbaric mistreatment of immigrants.

Even in modern Europe, no, treatment with dignity is not very guaranteed. The old racism of many European countries is seething just below the surface and if it¿s applied even to other Europeans, you can imagine how it might be felt by immigrants from the many countries that have for decades migrated to the U.S and integrated amazingly well for the most part.

Shitting on the U.S has always been de jure in certain circles, and now more than previously (partly deserved thanks to Trump) but it shouldn't happen at the expense of reality.

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