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Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#541

Post by clayhacks »

technofiend wrote: post #318
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t quite get why framework focuses so much on Intel and AMD. ARM laptops are in the rise, and don’t need active cooling. It’s hard for me to think of upgrading to another laptop with fans when so many fanless (I.e.: silent) options are available.

I hear you: would love to see a RISC-V-based system without all the downsides to using ARM. Perhaps in another 3-5 years we'll see performance parity and it'll be viable. If we get close it certainly seems like we'll see a laptop from Framework using such a chip.

Yeah I’m thinking it’s at least a few years off. But it’ll get better eventually. Framework is already on the RISCV train, so I have no doubt when a good RISCV SoC is available it’ll be in a framework ASAP. I’m hoping by the time my current 16 is feeling slow the RISCV option will be the obviously best choice

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#542

Post by sliken »

coolspot wrote: post #539
sliken wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But no published memory bandwidth.

512GB/s from insiders

Sounds promising, hope it's true, much like a mac studio with the m2 max. Otherwise a 128GB amd strix with 256GB/sec memory bandwidth for $2k looks good.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#543

Post by rstat1 »

simpaticoder wrote: post #525
rstat1 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just so you know I did the soldering fix and its been working just fine for me, for w/e that's worth to you. Also you're welcome! They have been pretty hit or miss on pushing updates to LVFS so I absolutely understand why you might not have known.

Thanks. I submitted another support request, and this time got a form email back. I will quote it here in full. Let me say that I am deeply unimpressed. They require that I disassemble the laptop to take a photograph of the mainboard, and send it to them (somehow, they do not say) and then perform major surgery on the mainboard that THEY designed poorly. What's more, they say that YOU have all liability for the repai…

I got the same email, and I agree they should've taken responsibility for their obvious design flaw and fixed it themselves free of charge.

Also I will again agree that my Batch 4 (or was it 5? I can't remember) FW13 is the most I've had to repair a laptop as well. I'm just gonna chalk that up to them technically being pre-full-production units and hope they have improved their QA in the later gens.

However I will also add that I like having the option to fix it myself (which is something I have some amount of skill/enjoyment in doing) which is certainly NOT an option you'd have with that M-series MacBook (or really any other brand of laptop)

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#544

Post by dangus »

harrison_clarke wrote: post #521
lifty wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's equivalent to a laptop 4070, not to a desktop one.

well, that's a hostile naming scheme from the specs, a mobile 4070 looks like its basically a 4060 ti, underclocked to ~60%

It's a hostile naming scheme but unfortunately that's how mobile GPUs have worked since the dawn of time.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#545

Post by harrison_clarke »

dangus wrote: post #544
harrison_clarke wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, that's a hostile naming scheme from the specs, a mobile 4070 looks like its basically a 4060 ti, underclocked to ~60%

It's a hostile naming scheme but unfortunately that's how mobile GPUs have worked since the dawn of time.

i think the thing that got me was that people wrote articles comparing this thing to a laptop GPU, and i didn't read far enough to notice. normally, people compare desktop stuff to desktop stuff, and laptop stuff to laptop stuff

i haven't bought a laptop gpu since ~2008. from what i remember, they used to at least put "mobility" in the name, or throw and 'm' after the number, or something

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#546

Post by yencabulator »

jefurii wrote: post #247
ortusdux wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the 12-inch form factor could be modified to support a 360 deg hinge? I enjoyed the Lenovo Yoga's tablet configuration.

I would love to see one of these hinges as a mod for the Framework 13...

The 13" display panel is like an L shape where the short goes in between the left & right sides chassis. That'd be modifying a lot.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#547

Post by yellowapple »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #386
yellowapple wrote: post #174

I like the case. Nice and compact, and the swappable tiles are cute. If the case works well with non-Framework Mini-ITX motherboards I'd be tempted to pick one up. The innards, however, are disappointing: - I get the explanation for why soldered RAM was necessary, but that's still pretty darn close to a dealbreaker for me; I'm inclined to wait for a future motherboard revision without that limitation - Only two Expan…

Article says there are six ports on the back, in which case you won't need expansion cards back there, as they'd be less space efficient.

The whole point of the expansion card system is to be able to choose which six ports. For all anyone knows I might need six USB Type-A, or two Ethernet and four storage, or a bunch of HDMI or DisplayPort, or what have you; yes, some of these are going to be limited by what the chipset can pump out, but still. That sort of modularity and swappability is something I leverage daily with both of my Framework laptops; that's indeed half the point of a Framework.

And as for the space-efficiency... the existing non-swappable ports are already pretty sparse and spread out. The expansion cards ain't all that big; stacking a bunch of 'em shouldn't take up more space.

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#548

Post by p_l »

forevernoob wrote: post #441
MisterKent wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a fan of open source and being able to tinker etc. But I've never felt the need (advantage?) to do more than just use the bios/efi to boot or configure a few basics. I've been burned by a small SBC that had poor support, but on laptops/desktops never felt limited. But people always sound so excited to libreboot their personal computer... Am I missing out or is it just nerd cred?

I'd say that after numerous revelations in regards to UEFI vulnerabilities and such, an open source BIOS / EFI has become a necessity for me rather than something just nice to have.

A lot of those revelations are due to majority of EFI code other than vendor specific drivers being quite open source unlike the bad old times.

Still would like an end to end open source UEFI bootchain, most groups end when they hit the 60% of stuff they need for their limited use cases : - |

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#549

Post by p_l »

bityard wrote: post #380
iamtheworstdev wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't know about other people's experience - but my framework with intel cpu is always running that fan relatively maxed out even when it's not doing anything. And it has massive issues staying asleep which is some sort of driver issue with Windows. But I can be an airport and all of a sudden my backpack feels like it's about to combust and i can hear my laptop fan rippin', even though it should be asleep.

That is by design, it's a feature from Intel and Microsoft called "modern standby." It basically means your laptop cannot actually sleep anymore. Instead, it enters a slightly-lower-power mode so that it can download emails in the background, run Windows updates in the middle of the night, and generally pretend to be a phone even though no one wants that and the hardware/os was not really designed for it.

Modern Standby requires that deepest sleep states take less power than S3 standby, the issue is mainly drivers and applications either waking the system or not putting peripherals into deep enough sleep (or shutting them down entirely if possible)

Re: Framework's first desktop is a strange–but unique–mini ITX gaming PC

#550

Post by p_l »

pmontra wrote: post #455
WD-42 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some new laptops cannot actually fully suspend to ram. It sounds crazy but I had this issue even after installing Linux on a laptop. It’s a hardware limitation. You can thank Microsoft for trying to make sure they can sneak in OS updates when you think your laptop is asleep.

By the way, how do people carry those laptops on airplanes if regulations mandate that every radio equipment must be off?

Airplane mode is still a thing.
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