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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#541

Post by queuebert »

sitharus wrote: post #424
fransje26 wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I found a deck of studying cards from Endeavor-Air, for the CRJ 900 limiations [1]. Card 18 states: Max allowable crosswind component for takeoff and landing on a runway when the braking action is “FAIR” => 20 knots That also seems to overlap with what is being discussed by CRJ pilots in this reddit thread [2] (EDIT: also discussed today here [3]) If the METAR is correct, they were landing with a cross…

The METAR was 27028G35KT, or 28 gusting 35 from 270° magnetic However the runway landing was 33, or 330° magnetic. So this is 24-30kt crosswind component. The maximum landing crosswind on a dry runway is 32kt. The press conference reported the runway as dry, so if they’re correct then it’s within limits. At the reported -9°c if the runway has been de-iced it could be dry I guess? The surveillance potato camera makes…

Doesn't look like a severe crosswind to me, because there seems to be very little crabbing or rudder input, although the camera angles make it hard to tell for sure. You can also see snow blowing on the ground roughly parallel to the runway. I would guess either a downdraft or they forgot to flare or both.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#542

Post by justusthane »

einhard wrote: post #22

I stitched together a small audio clip from LiveATC with both the Ground and Tower frequencies mapped to the Left and Right audio channels. It starts around the time the aircraft was cleared to land, and then skips forward to the moment the controllers realized the aircraft crashed. Here is a link to the .mp3 file (it's on Discord for now - I don't know if this is allowed, let me know if it isn't): https://cdn.discor…

It's wild how calm and matter-of-fact he sounds when he says, "This airplane just crashed." I suppose that's the job though!

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#543

Post by varjag »

michaelt wrote: post #448
tssge wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general the airlines just ask you to leave your luggage. If they were legally obliged to replace all your items, they would inform you of such. On international flights, an airline is liable for up to $1700 per the Montreal Convention. This might cover say half of one's laptop, which no matter how stupid it sounds, makes taking your luggage with you the only financially sensible choice in a crash (unless you have…

> This might cover say half of one's laptop, which no matter how stupid it sounds, makes taking your luggage with you the only financially sensible choice in a crash (unless you have insurance). If there's no smoke, no visible flames, and you can do so safely without obstructing other passengers' egress? I can see the argument, sure. Obviously if the cabin is filling with smoke or there are visible flames or other ob…

I don't think a stressed rando inside the plane is in position to evaluate how soon it will combust. Not even the firemen on the outside often have a clue.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#544

Post by 542354234235 »

varjag wrote: post #402
chakintosh wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Footage from inside the plane of a flight attendant clearing passengers. https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1irwh9x/...

Lowkey mad at the lady dragging her hand luggage.

“We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training” – Archilochus

People like to imagine how they would act in an extreme situation that is unique and beyond anything they have ever experienced before. But the reality is people do very poorly most of the time without regular training. In a crash, the adrenaline is flooding your body, and most people are not “thinking” much at all. You know you need to get out but your brain is barely processing, so what do you do when you exit a plane? You grab your luggage and head for the door.

Flight attendants giving simple, clear, easy to follow instructions is partly because people are not thinking and processing properly and need help doing things that would be easy in a non-emergency situation.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#546

Post by hmmm-i-wonder »

bsimpson wrote: post #269

It's wild to me that this is at the top of Hacker News, but not even on the Google News front page. I feel like major airline crashes are usually headlines.

Google news stopped linking/showing Canadian news sites after some law was passed around financial compensation.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#547

Post by ryandrake »

aziaziazi wrote: post #510
tssge wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing it's right. Frankly, I think it's stupid the way things are. But I can understand why some people make such choice. I guess my argument mainly is that people who take their luggage are not stupid, instead their behavior may be highly rational, however we have the means to change it with by making such choice irrational and I wish we will.

> people who take their luggage are not stupid I agree with your parent’s post explaining its a sensible financial choice. However as you noted there’s other things One could consider like other’s passagers survival chances or firefighter taking dangerous steps during their work. Taking your language is financially sensible but socially dumb and selfish. It seems an acceptable choices in the countries that values ind…

If people's response to COVID didn't convince us that selfishness has taken over the world, I don't know what will.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#548

Post by throw0101c »

latexr wrote: post #531
throw0101c wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don’t even remove it and store it in your bag temporarily when on an airplane, you never know if it’ll capsize on landing and you’ll need to avoid people on the internet criticising you. You'll need to first avoid succumbing to smoke inhalation or flames if you don't get out in time (or cause someone else to not get out because your fumbling). The take-offs and landings (and perhaps add approach) phases of flight c…

Do you see lots of smoke and flames in this video? There are several people outside already, with backpacks too . It is incredible how people feel entitled to, based on a split second from a video, judge so harshly another human being who just went through a traumatic experience. We weren’t there. The situation looks under control. For all you know this person gave their turn to others inside the plane so they could…

I'm not judging harshly: adrenaline dumps are a real thing. And even though it looks under control, a few passenger interviews have indicated that many folks didn't have time to think.

But the whole point of all those procedures about turning stuff off and putting things is away is situations like this: you may or may not have time to think, and you may or may not have to deal with smoke or flames. And just because there weren't smoke/flames right at that moment, you can't tell if they would arrive "soon": planes have been completely engulfed in fire with-in 90 seconds in the past.

The idea behind suggesting a fanny pack, and perhaps having all your cards and papers (and medicine) on your person, is so that if such a thing should happen you do not have to think to make sure you have what you need. So that in a panic you already have it with you if you get out just by the fact you got out and it was physically attached to you.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#549

Post by ryandrake »

bolognafairy wrote: post #461
michaelt wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of explaining the passenger's behaviour, though - presumably they didn't know this, and didn't have time to research it on their phone during the crash. Airline customer service standards are very low; I can see how a person making the decision based on just their experience with airlines would conclude it was better to grab their carry-on if it was safe to do so.

Anyone that disregards explicit instruction by cabin crew, regarding safety, is an idiot, regardless. I give zero shits if you think you’re going to lose your stuff. And you should give zero shits if I’m going to lose mine. Don’t act like this is a class / means thing. It isn’t. This is just Americanism.

Everyone thinks they are the main character of the story. I should get to keep my bag because I am the protagonist, but everyone else is supposed to leave theirs, so that we can escape faster! The rules don't apply to me specifically because I am the only person in my life that matters.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#550

Post by ls612 »

culi wrote: post #150
donsupreme wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 in critical condition so I read.

I also read everyone is expected to survive. Hope those in critical condition are able to make a full recovery

Survive sure. But one of the people in critical condition is a small infant that got thrown out of their lap belt so they will probably have life-altering injuries from this.
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