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20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

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Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#541
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source for the assertion that it's not a buyout and it's up to the individual agency if the employee is required to continue working? You might be right that it's not a buyout, but the official Office of Personnel Management FAQ seems to clearly describe it as one: Q: Am I expected to work at my government job during the deferred resignation period? A: No. Q: Am I allowed to get a second job during the de…

> I am certain of my decision to resign and my choice to resign is fully voluntary. I understand my employing agency will likely make adjustments in response to my resignation including moving, eliminating, consolidating, reassigning my position and tasks, reducing my official duties, and/or placing me on paid administrative leave until my resignation date. From https://www.opm.gov/fork/ That is what resigners agree…

https://www.opm.gov/media/xmxfp34k/opm-memo-legality-of-defe...

Best source for information on this since the FAQ disagrees with the memo and the contents of the letter.

> Yes. The decision to grant administrative leave, and for how long, lies largely within the agency’s discretion.

That's the official OPM guidance on this, where they're saying that you may have to work and that it is up to the agency and not OPM.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so doing this is pointless and only going to slow you down. That's a feature. Going slow and giving Democrats a chance to howl is called "democracy". It's our system. Unilaterally moving fast and breaking things without even allowing a chance for debate or input from the minority party is a different system, called "autocracy".

Americans elected a republican majority in congress and the executive branch. RBG ensured they have a clear majority in the court. Democrats marginalized themselves by catering to their most fringe elements. As they say, elections have consequences.

And that Republican majority can pass bills through the Congress, and the Republican president can sign them into law, and the elected Democrats get to have their say. But MAGA can't just come in and completely trash everything people did just because they disagree with the priorities that came before them. How would you run a country that way, if you have to start from scratch every 4 years? How could you operate a business that way, if things you do can just be made illegal by decree? How can you run a research agenda if your secured funding can just be pulled at will?

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#543

The idea that government workers cannot be hired and fired at will is wrong. Government workers should have no more rights than the single mother working at a restaurant or business, or anyone working at any normal business in the US. I other words, they should not have more rights or protections than the people who pay the taxes that pay for their salaries and benefits. One of the most fundamental problems in variou…

Maybe instead of punching down("everyone should have to live as bad as I do/did") you should be raising people up("everyone should live as good as they do/did")? Why not ask yourself what is stopping yourself from having those protections in the private industry(hint: some people do have those protections in private industry) instead of focusing on taking them away from others?

> Why not ask yourself what is stopping yourself from having those protections in the private industry

Easy: Reality. Read on if you care to understand.

> Maybe instead of punching down("everyone should have to live as bad as I do/did") you should be raising people up

You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. What some of these protected groups have is a fantasy, a Ponzi scheme, that is only sustainable because they can take money away from us by force through taxation.

In the real world, a company cannot give their employees lifetime pensions at 80% of their last salary. This is crazy, yet, this happens across a bunch of government and other tax-supported entities.

I am not saying that everyone should live as bad as I do. I don't have a bad life and such is the case for most people. What I (and tens of millions of others) don't have is a fantasy where magical money supports exorbitant pensions, medical plans and other benefits.

Here's a super simplified math experiment. This isn't meant to be a precise model of reality, just a thinking tool to start to ask the right questions.

You hire a 60 year old for a job (again, for simplification). Say you pay them $100K US for that job.

Their healthcare plan costs $25K per year, which you also pay.

Five years later this person retires. Because they are in a protected class, you have to keep paying for their healthcare and, say, 80% of their salary for the rest of their lives. Let's say this person lives to 90, so 25 years.

Well, you need to hire another person to fulfill that role. You go and hire another 60 year old for the same role (simplifying so we only wait 5 years for retirement.

You pay this person the same $100K and spend $25K on health insurance.

In reality, this role now costs you $180K per year in salary and $50K per year in healthcare.

Why?

Because you have to carry the first ex-employee for the rest of his/her life.

Five years later, the second employee retires. Same protected benefits and conditions.

You hire someone for the same role again.

Now the position costs you $260K per year, plus $75K per year in medical.

You are 10 years into this experiment and the entire thing is unsustainable at best. If you have the ability to do it, you are forced to either outsource (China), negotiate a sensible deal or close down the business (because you might have dozens, hundreds or thousands of employees under similar conditions.

The steady state for this is when the oldest employees die, the limit function, if you will. At that point the role will cost you approximately $420K per year in salary and $125K per year in healthcare premiums.

This, of course, assuming there is no inflation and costs remain flat for 25 years, which isn't going to be the case at all. Assuming 5% per year inflation/cost-of-living increases, the numbers at the end of 25 years are $466K and $138K.

You see, what happens is that people read a comment such as mine and don't invest one microsecond actually thinking things through, much less analyzing it. This isn't difficult math. And this has nothing to do with wanting people to live, as you put it, as bad as I do. What I want is for the people WE pay to live in the same reality WE do. In this reality, you'd go bankrupt if you owned a business, small, medium or large, that provided such insanely irresponsible benefit packages.

In other words, these people live in a taxpayer-funded fantasy. And this is wrong.

And that doesn't even cover the issue of incompetence. If you cannot fire people when they are found to be incompetent, you might have to hire two, three or more people just to be able to get that one job done. Now were are in the realm of that position potentially costing you millions of dollars per year. This is incredibly wrong.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe instead of punching down("everyone should have to live as bad as I do/did") you should be raising people up("everyone should live as good as they do/did")? Why not ask yourself what is stopping yourself from having those protections in the private industry(hint: some people do have those protections in private industry) instead of focusing on taking them away from others?

> Why not ask yourself what is stopping yourself from having those protections in the private industry Easy: Reality. Read on if you care to understand. > Maybe instead of punching down("everyone should have to live as bad as I do/did") you should be raising people up You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. What some of these protected groups have is a fantasy, a Ponzi scheme, that is only sustainable bec…

To my point, here's just one, of the likely thousands (if not tens of thousands) of examples of just how bad this can be. This is a local example, yet, you can find the same thing at every level of government and other taxpayer funded organizations. It's a Ponzi scheme supported by taxpayer money.

https://reason.org/commentary/californias-unfunded-pension-l...

Illinois:

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-state-pension-debt-c...

New Jersey:

https://www.njspotlightnews.org/2023/12/can-nj-keep-making-f...

Yet, that's nothing compared to the Federal net unfunded liability of $30 TRILLION dollars (and rising), which is equivalent to 128 percent of GDP. This is INSANE.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-state-pension-debt-c...

We are in a crisis that is unimaginable for most people. It would not be too much of a stretch to call it existential. How many multiples of GDP can we actually survive until the entire thing comes crashing down?

So, yeah, all of the folks who's knee-jerk reaction is to downvote my reality-based post don't have a fucking clue. You'd think people on HN would at least make a little bit of an effort to do the math. Heck, ask ChatGPT if you are lazy!

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#545

Late to the party, but I know of at least two highly-paid coworkers that already had plans to retire, but are now just hoping for several months of extra pay (it's essentially the only situation where I would recommend someone take this offer-- if it works out, great for them; if it doesn't, well they were going to leave anyway)

The other people it makes sense for (assuming they actually follow through) are those who are remote and don't want to or for some reason cannot move. This gives them an exemption to the RTO order and time to find a job.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans elected a republican majority in congress and the executive branch. RBG ensured they have a clear majority in the court. Democrats marginalized themselves by catering to their most fringe elements. As they say, elections have consequences.

And that Republican majority can pass bills through the Congress, and the Republican president can sign them into law, and the elected Democrats get to have their say. But MAGA can't just come in and completely trash everything people did just because they disagree with the priorities that came before them. How would you run a country that way, if you have to start from scratch every 4 years? How could you operate a…

I’m certain you felt the exact same way when Biden spent his first weeks in office doing the exact same thing, issuing executive orders to systemically reverse everything Trump did in 4 years.

It must have been deeply upsetting when the White House press secretary was asked at the time why he was skipping congress, and she said that Biden was not going to “delay action” by going the legislative route.

And I’m sure you’ll feel the same way when the next Democrat president does it too right?

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#547
post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but GME is an interesting contrast. Despite delusional investors they didn't manage to make anything of it.

They're still around. Remember they were shorted because they seemed on the verge of bankruptcy..

More zombie than thriving though.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that Republican majority can pass bills through the Congress, and the Republican president can sign them into law, and the elected Democrats get to have their say. But MAGA can't just come in and completely trash everything people did just because they disagree with the priorities that came before them. How would you run a country that way, if you have to start from scratch every 4 years? How could you operate a…

I’m certain you felt the exact same way when Biden spent his first weeks in office doing the exact same thing, issuing executive orders to systemically reverse everything Trump did in 4 years. It must have been deeply upsetting when the White House press secretary was asked at the time why he was skipping congress, and she said that Biden was not going to “delay action” by going the legislative route. And I’m sure yo…

Biden was my 10th option for POTUS, and I felt about his overreach the same way I feel about Trump's. But Biden is gone, Trump is POTUS, and what Trump is doing still represents a new overreach into territory that, again, the other side would not like if it were applied to them, yet you seem to be reveling in it.

> It must have been deeply upsetting when the White House press secretary

yes.

> And I’m sure you’ll feel the same way when the next Democrat president does it too right?

yes. You're trying to catch me in a "gotcha" but I don't support abuse of power no matter which side is abusing that power.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#549
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blue Origin has finally turned it around and is getting close to matching SpaceX.

I sure hope so, but also caution (admittedly as an outsider, your posts suggest greater familiarity than I have) that there's not enough evidence yet to be confident of that — finally getting to launch is really impressive, but their first orbital capable rocket is still a sample size of 1. (Counter point is that New Glenn's one orbital launch is more impressive than all of the Starship launches combined, as SpaceX i…

I know people at SpaceX, but I don't know anyone at Blue Origin. We're all very curious to know what has changed, as they very clearly have made changes. There was a large shakeup in company management there in late 2023, and the turnaround on timeline was stunning. They are certainly moving very, very fast now.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#550
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're still around. Remember they were shorted because they seemed on the verge of bankruptcy..

More zombie than thriving though.

Fair enough. They were able to exploit it with a massive share offering at a high price, which not only got them in the black but set them up with considerable holdings sufficient to survive the next downturn. So they're not going anywhere. But yeah, I don't think they have any ideas for future growth.

They should have used that money to buy GOG and go into digital distribution competing with Valve & Epic, or something like that.

But then again, so many stable companies get pushed by their investors to make big ambitious bets, then go belly-up. I kinda got respect for them just focusing on a good brick-and-mortor game buying experience.

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