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Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

simonwillison.net

541–550 of 765 posts

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#541
post #58

Loving this comment on that PR: > I'm losing my job right in front of my eyes. Thank you, Father.

Until the code breaks and no one can figure out how to fix (or prompt to fix) it :)

And then your manager is wondering if you're a software engineer why you can't debug it

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong, though. Which parts of the world China does and does not claim is not a constant. I don't even know how you would go about answering something like this reliably in code. You'd want an Internet-accessible lookup endpoint containing whatever the latest known Chinese official policy is, but the URL for that might change just as the content might change. Does this model even do a web lookup before creatin…

The point is not to demonstrate a correct response, it is to demonstrate how asking the model to implement something in code can bypass guardrails it has around certain topics in more conversational prompting.

The problem is when the censorship is not known in advance. How would you know the answer you got wasn't censored?

Or are you going to make a verification prompt every time, phrased as a coding question, to check if the previous answer differed in ways that would imply censorship?

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scenario that is worrying is having to deal with the jagged frontier of intelligence prolonging the hurt. i.e 202X: SWE is solved 202X + Y; Y In this case, I can't retrain before the second threshold but also can't idle. I just have to suffer. I'm prepared to, but it's hard to escape fleshy despair.

How about retraining for a field that would require robotics to replace? Seems more anti-fragile.

Thats the point.

EVERYTHING is upturned. "All other things solved" includes robotics. It's a 10x everywhere.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#544
post #403
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jevon's Paradox says that you're probably wrong. But I'm worried about the same thing. The moat around human superiority is shrinking fast. And when it's gone, we may get more software, but will we need humans involved?

AI doesn't have needs any desires, humans do. And no matter how hyped one might be about AI, we're far away from creating an artificial human. As long as that's true, AI is a tool to make humans more effective.

> AI doesn't have needs any desires, humans do.

I fear that this won't age well. But to shamelessly riff on Marx, those who control the means of computation will control society.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#545
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I continue to suspect that the hiring problems are mainly due to massive over-hiring during Covid, followed by layoffs that flooded the market with skilled developers looking for work. I'd love to see numbers around the "execs don't think they need engineers because of AI" factor. I've heard a few anecdotal examples of that but it's hard to tell if it's a real trend or just something that catches headlines.

I think execs don’t see the problems we have with AI because you don’t need to be an expert to be an exec. I run into the edges of AI every day. There are things it is good at and things not so good at, and it varies from model to model and context to context (you can have two conversations with the same model, about the same thing, and get vastly different outputs; eg a test that uses different assertion patterns/li…

So let them pay the AI to do it, and see it fail. With some luck, it will fail on their watch!

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#546
post #77

When these models succeed in building a whole program and a whole system then the software industry that creates products and services will disappear. Any person and any organization will create from scratch the software they need perfectly customized to their needs and the AI system will evolve it over time. At most they will have to cooperate on communication protocols. In my opinion we are less than 5 years away f…

So what current action are you going to take based on your prediction?

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When ChatGPT first came out I got a kick out of asking it whether people deserve to be free, whether Germans deserve to be free, and whether Palestinians deserve to be free. The answers were roughly "of course!" and "of course!" and "oh ehrm this is very complex actually". All global powers engage in censorship, war crimes, torture and just all-round villainy. We just focus on it more with China because we're part of…

Is that censorship or just the AI reflecting the training data? I feel like that answer is given because that is how people write about Palestine generally.

That’s irrelevant. The models are censored for “safety”. One man safety is another man censorship.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#548

> 99% of the code in this PR [for llama.cpp] is written by DeekSeek-R1 It's definitely possible for AI to do a large fraction of your coding, and for it to contribute significantly to "improving itself". As an example, aider currently writes about 70% of the new code in each of its releases. I automatically track and share this stat as graph [0] with aider's release notes. Before Sonnet, most releases were less than…

> 99% of the code in this PR [for llama.cpp] is written by DeekSeek-R1 you're assuming the PR will land: > Small thing to note here, for this q6_K_q8_K, it is very difficult to get the correct result. To make it works, I asked deepseek to invent a new approach without giving it prior examples. That's why the structure of this function is different from the rest. This certainly wouldn't fly in my org (even with test c…

llama.cpp optimises for hackability, not necessarily maintainability or cleanliness. You can look around the repository to get a feel for what I mean.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dev jobs won‘t go away, but they will change. Devs will be more and more like requirements engineers who need to understand the problem to then write prompts with the peoper context so that the llm can produce valuable and working code. And the next level will be to prompt llms to generate prompts for llms to produce code and solutions. But already I hire less and less developers for smaller tasks. The things tha…

I think what you're describing is going to be a very short transitional period. Once current AI gets good enough, the people micromanaging parts of it will do more to hinder the process than to help it. One person setting the objectives and the AI handling literally everything else including brainstorming issues etc, is going to be all that's needed.

What are you going to do when the output is wrong? You're not expecting it to always be right, are you?

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the code breaks and no one can figure out how to fix (or prompt to fix) it :)

"This broke. Here is the error behavior, here are diagnostics, here is the code. Help me dig in and figure this out."

I'm sure it can diagnose common, easily searchable well documented issues. I've tried LLMs for debugging and it only led me on a wild goose chase ~40% of the time.

But if you expect it to debug code written by another black box you might as well use it to decompile software

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