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Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

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Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#541

Post by JumpCrisscross »

_2d30 wrote: post #390
throwaway199956 wrote: post #342

But why didn't Supreme Court find the first ammendment arguments compelling? As per first ammendment it is legal and protected to print/distribute/disseminate even enemy propaganda in the USA. Even at the height of cold war for example Soviet Publications were legal to publish, print and distribute in the USA. What changed now? Even a judge, Sotomayer said during this case that yes, the Government can say to someone…

Because there is no "TikTok" ban and never has been. There is a "TikTok cannot be controlled by the CCP" law. TikTok is completely legal under the law as long as they divest it. However, in a great act of self-incrimination, Bytedance (de facto controlled by CCP) has decided to not divest and would rather shutdown instead.

> There is a "TikTok cannot be controlled by the CCP" law

It’s also not a ban on the content. It’s a ban on hosting and the App Store. TikTok.com can still legally resolve to the same content.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#542

Post by w0m »

next_xibalba wrote: post #404
legitster wrote: post #119

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive. There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction. Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is…

From a geopolitical perspective, this issue about 3 items: 1) Influence- TikTok gives the CCP significant direct influence over the views of Americans. 2) Data- TikTok collects massive amounts of data on 100s of millions of Americans. Opens many avenues for spying, extortion of influence, etc. 3) Reciprocity- Foreign tech companies are essentially banned from operating in China. Much like with other industries, China…

> 1) Influence- TikTok gives the CCP significant direct influence over the views of Americans.

There is no credible argument that the CCP doesn't directly control the alg as it's actively being used for just that in tawain/etc.

Does the US really want a (hostile?) foreign govt to have clear direct access to influence 170m americans, an entire generation - completely unfettered? Incredible national security implications. Bot farms can influence X/Meta/etc, but they can be at least be fought. TikTok itself is the influence engine as currently constructed.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#543

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

graeme wrote: post #283
elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

Tiktok is actually surprisingly national in how it serves its content. If you're outside the US you don't see most American accounts except the ones that go very viral. Edit: I should clarify. This might mean most content you see is English, if you're interested in English content. However it matters where the video was geographically uploaded from. If you upload a tiktok video and check the stats you'll see most vie…

TikTok is surprisingly national at the surface level, but it is all coordinated back with the parent China based entities (ByteDance, Douyin, and the CCP), so that even if it is national, it upholds China’s national interests. See the story at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42739855 for more details. But basically, TikTok executives had to agree to let ByteDance monitor their personal devices, swear oaths to uphold various goals of the CCP (“national unity” “socialism” etc), report to both a US-based manager and a China-based manager, uphold the CCP’s moderation/censorship scheme, and so on. It is REALLY aggressive and unethical, but also reveals how subtly manipulative the entire system of TikTok is.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#544

Post by gitdowndirty »

adriand wrote: post #322

What I love is that apparently tons of Americans are signing up for a different Chinese social video app whose name is being translated as “Red Note”. I would love if the end result of this was another several years of congressional drama about a different Chinese app.

[dead]

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#545

Post by corimaith »

adriand wrote: post #322

What I love is that apparently tons of Americans are signing up for a different Chinese social video app whose name is being translated as “Red Note”. I would love if the end result of this was another several years of congressional drama about a different Chinese app.

Isn't Red Note planning to segregate based on IP to prevent US Influence from those TikTok refugees? The original CN users aren't exactly happy with the newcomers either, and the TikTok refugees themselves are getting quite a culture shock with regards to cultural attitudes to LGBQT or even basic "leftist" activism like strikes and collective bargaining

Anyways, those alternatives are not so algorithmically driven, and especially if it's forcing actual user interaction and discussion that certainly would be good for Americans to understand what the mainland Chinese are really thinking and saying domestically. Because if you go to the actual main discussion forums like Weibo, oh boy it's not going to be pretty.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#546

Post by JumpCrisscross »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #441
throwaway199956 wrote: post #342

But why didn't Supreme Court find the first ammendment arguments compelling? As per first ammendment it is legal and protected to print/distribute/disseminate even enemy propaganda in the USA. Even at the height of cold war for example Soviet Publications were legal to publish, print and distribute in the USA. What changed now? Even a judge, Sotomayer said during this case that yes, the Government can say to someone…

The first amendment doesn't apply here. You can say whatever you want anywhere else on the internet. You can print what you want anywhere you want. You can distribute what you want anywhere you want. Bytedance refused to sell TikTok so it's being shut down. They could divest, but they didn't.

> first amendment doesn't apply here

It absolutely does. (It’s in the opinion.)

It just isn’t the Wild Draw 4 some people imagine it to be. You can’t commit fraud or libel or false advertising and claim First Amendment protection. Similarly, there are levels of scrutiny when the government claims national security to shut down a media platform.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#547

Post by deepsun »

hintymad wrote: post #525
elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

> This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. China has had such social networks for a long time. Their Weibo and Xiaohongshu are two prominent examples. Weibo started as a copycat of Twitter, but then beats Twitter hands-down with faster iterations, better features, and more vibrant user engagement despite the gross censorship imposed by the…

Re. copycats -- VK was also a blatant copycat of Facebook, down to copy-pasted CSS styles.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#548

Post by spencerflem »

ttrgsafs wrote: post #301

So what are the real dangers? - Frying teenagers' brains with short attention deficit videos. That one seems logical, but others are doing it, too. - Political indoctrination. - Compromised politicians who can be blackmailed: The big one, but a certain island run by the daughter of a certain intelligence agency operative was largely ignored. - Corporate espionage: Probably not happening on TikTok. Certainly happening…

US Govt has a lot more limited say on what content is pushed or neutered.

Content relating to the genocide happening in Palestine for example, is much more restricted on US sites.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#550

Post by CryptoBanker »

dluan wrote: post #540

rumors are that XHS wont region split, in which case this is setting up to a monumental event in the evolution and future of the internet. words can't really describe how big of a decision this is going to be.

That's the opposite of what I've heard

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/01/rednote-may-wall...

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