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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#541

Post by abletonlive »

code_for_monkey wrote: post #395
stickfigure wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

why are tech workers, my industry, so committed to this ideology? Do you think the tech layoffs of the last few years was a justified culling of lazy idiots?

Honestly yes. I've been interviewing people that have gotten laid off and almost 75% of the time I'm thinking that they were probably chosen for layoffs due to low performance

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#542

Post by drawkward »

avazhi wrote: post #492
drawkward wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the current definition of progressivism It's a fairly pro-business paper, certainly not very critical of Israel, and you appear to have completely missed all of its somewhat trans-skeptical reporting and opinion. (The latter pervasive enough to rankle many of its own employees about the tone and tenor of NYT coverage of trans issues.)

> It's a fairly pro-business paper, certainly not very critical of Israel Sorry, are we both talking about the New York Times in 2024 here? Not a day goes by that there isn’t an article crying about Palestinians and bashing Israel - there’s one right now, just scroll down to the section just above sports. Calling it the preeminent progressive institution in America media today is axiomatic.

>Calling it the preeminent progressive institution in America media today is axiomatic.

...among certain not-unbiased segments of the population.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#543

Post by stego-tech »

quotemstr wrote: post #296
stego-tech wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…

And it's the uneven propagation of price information through the popular consciousness that makes inflation so insidious. You're absolutely right: a lot of people are calibrated on 2010 prices for income despite 2024 prices for expenses.

I will unashamedly admit I was one of those people until recently. When I got into the housing market, I thought $650k for a turnkey property fit for four adults would be sufficient, with another $70k set aside for repairs and projects (HVAC, oil tank removal, etc).

Turns out I was wrong, and my failure to adapt my standards has likely cost me an opportunity to own a home sans a significant pay rise.

Once I accepted that new data, however, I was able to see the immense gap between reality and expectation, as well as understand that it’s not necessarily my fault for missing that opportunity. I went with the widely-propagated programming for new homeowners at the time, and missed the pitfalls despite my ample additional research. Housing is complicated, and it’s the biggest hindrance to a more stable, equitable, and productive society in my personal opinion.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#544

Post by School-Cotton »

quandrum wrote: post #408
stickfigure wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

No, I want management to develop a system to determine who is low-performing, document when those workers don't meet the standards of performance, and reference those documents when they fire someone. It's just asking for due process.

> I want management to develop a system to determine who is low-performing

Nobody has ever invented a working system for objectively rating software engineers. I really doubt NYT will be the ones to do so!

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#545

Post by IshKebab »

kergonath wrote: post #520
themacguffinman wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A neutral source from a third party news outlet. Do you think bias is a one-dimensional tug of war that cancels each other out when combined?

Too many people believe that we can balance excessive bias with excessive bias in another direction. In reality: - bias cannot be eliminated, merely mitigated; - the truth is not the average of all opinions; - some sources are important even if their point of view is subjective. Unfortunately, the whole internet seems to be engulfed in a nihilistic tribal war where everything is black or white. This kind of argument…

True but I'm not sure of the relevance here. NYT is clearly going to be biased here. This isn't Carl Sagan being "balanced" by flat earthers.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#546

Post by Xelynega »

School-Cotton wrote: post #233
9dev wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a foreigner it’s so alien to me that such a provision isn’t mandated by law anyway, and that there isn’t broad support in the population to restrict employers from firing at will… wild.

> As a foreigner I strongly suspect that, as usual in discussions like this, by “foreigner” you specifically mean “European” or “Canadian” or “Australian”. The US is surely not alone in having a relative lack of legally mandated job security.

It's unique in that it's a country with h western values with relatively underdeveloped worker protections.

Sure places like Saudi have literal slavery, but they don't pretend to value life either.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#547

Post by metabagel »

SoftTalker wrote: post #457
yoyohello13 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. That’s leverage. Striking during a time when the business doesn’t care is a dumb move.

Yeah the media have been salivating for this week for months now. Exactly why I'm not planning to read or watch any news this week. I'll vote tomorrow. That's what I can do. All the rest of it is out of my hands and I'm not going to spend any of my time or mental energy engaging in the manufactured drama sure to come. Like my barber said at my last haircut: the only sure thing about this election is that an idiot wil…

Not necessarily. Trump might not win.

It boggles my mind at how proud people are to refuse to draw a distinction between two completely different candidates. One has demonstrated competence and public service, while the other has demonstrated incompetence and chronic self-dealing.

Refusing to draw a distinction is moral cowardice.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#548

Post by School-Cotton »

tssva wrote: post #503
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds good, but in my experience bad employees were known to everyone. It was difficult to pinpoint exactly why they were bad or toxic, but pretty much everyone agreed. If you gave them some benchmark they would need to hit (e.g. close tickets, be on call, etc), they would be able to do so. So creating a documentation trail is difficult, especially if its based on people saying they don't think he does good wor…

If they are meeting the metrics set to judge their performance how are they bad employees? If the metrics don't properly measure whether the job is being done then change the metrics.

> If the metrics don't properly measure whether the job is being done then change the metrics.

Nobody has ever come up with a good set of objective metrics to judge software engineer performance. So the best we have is still the subjective opinions of your managers and peers.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#549

Post by legitster »

eloisant wrote: post #483
legitster wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's particularly an awful request to pair with remote work. "I should be able to work anywhere so long as it doesn't affect my performance..." "Also don't judge me based on performance". I think people need to be honest that WFH is as an argument is tightly integrated with merit.

I don't see the link. Does working in office means you're allowed to do a crappy job?

I mean, in the context of most union agreements with a similar provision, kinda.

Your union might protect you from termination on an assembly line, and at least they can move you around the facility or bring in extra workers. Or for a teacher they bring in more supervision and resources.

In contexts where unions have similar provisions, direct supervision is implied.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#550

Post by FpUser »

csallen wrote: post #448
lucianbr wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if only low-performing coworkers would be terminated. The total freedom of the company to terminate anyone any time for any reason or no reason is extreme, and now we are pivoting to the other extreme. Funny how that happens.

Why is that extreme? If you own a company, why shouldn't you be able to fire someone at any time? If you work a job, why shouldn't you be able to quit at any time? I don't think it's great that our society tries to treat work like it's family, and jobs like they're some guaranteed long-term relationship. It sets people up with the wrong expectations. Your company will lay you off or fire you once they run out of mone…

>"These are business contracts."

I would agree with this but if that's the case why employees are not given the same perks as companies from a tax point of view? My personal preference is to treat every human as a business. The alternative would be to eliminate all taxes except sales tax with some cutoff for low income persons.

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