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When do we stop finding new music?

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Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#541

Post by erikbye »

d12345m wrote: post #531
erikbye wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me preface by saying I listen to a lot of genres, but that jazz & funk is not my "main expertise". Of course there's no denying we have lots of creative and talented new musicians, but very seldom do I think they beat "the greats", or are even on par. Usually they feel more like knockoffs, and I find I'd rather go back and listen to the original instead. I'm not familiar with these artists, but I had a listen to…

I think you may have found a different Nate Smith than the one goosejuice was referencing. They were likely referring to the drummer named Nate Smith (he's collaborated with at least one of the groups mentioned). The guy has a lot of interesting work, but I think the thing that blew me away the most is the composition 'Warble'. If memory serves, that's the piece where he explored 64th note and dotted 32nd note displa…

You're right, stumbled upon the wrong Nate.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#543

Post by watwut »

dotnet00 wrote: post #283
Thegn wrote: post #224

One problem I've run into with the music services is with older styles. For example, I'm specifically into black musicians from the 1930s-1950s who played swing style music. I have yet to find a service that actually will play more than 2-3 songs in that style before deciding that what I really want to hear is rat pack or swing by white musicians. No matter how much I thumbs down it, I get Glenn Miller/Frank Sinatra/…

The other replies are interpreting this as the algorithm failing, but I have interpreted these sorts of things as intentional design choices, wherein they want the recommender to keep trying to diversify your interests so it's harder for you to just quit the service and move to another one which might not have the same variety (or where you'd have to try to "teach" the recommender again). They've determined that the…

I would love diversifying, but it does not do that. It does "revert to mainstream" trying to push you toward the most generic thing accestible by association from what you like.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#544

Post by watwut »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #281
criley2 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm a little puzzled as you're describing a music stylist on skin colour, black vs white You may not realize this, but in the 1930-1950 era being described in America, there was something called "Segregation" where black people were considered legally inferior to white people. As such, there was a very hard line between "black" and "white", a line that was aggressively enforced by every level of society from lawmaki…

You should be able to describe the sound differences if the music is that distinct.

People not deep into music have hard time verbalize difference between metal and rock or hiphop and rap. Despite differences being super obvious when listening.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#545

Post by watwut »

goosejuice wrote: post #401
KETHERCORTEX wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it's not that ridiculous because "black" here isn't just a skin color, but primarily a subculture/subgenre with some distinct musical attributes. Nobody finds separating French electronic music into its own subgenre ridiculous. Same with Italian Disco. Such distinct movements are quite usual, so dissatisfaction about Black Swing on streaming services is understandable.

I think many here are missing the point being made. Of course there are stylistic differences between some groups of artists. The thing is that they probably aren't coded by skin color let alone period location etc, so of course it will bleed. Playing some swing and expecting it to continue to stay within very blurry racial lines is unrealistic, silly, and maybe irresponsible for a recommendation algorithm. As it's b…

But these were different music styles.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#546

Post by mellosouls »

jahewson wrote: post #528
mellosouls wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

trying to diversify your interests In this instance - and others in my experience listening to the recommendations on this and similar services - "diversify" is used when "dilute" would be more appropriate.

It’s not really though - if it was known in advance that you did not like a track then there would be no reason to recommend it. It’s the classic precision vs recall trade off: I can create a recommendation algorithm that only recommends your favourite song, forever, and that will have perfect precision but miserable recall. To increase recall we have to accept a drop in precision.

It's entirely possible to retain soul and widen reference.

Offering up bland imitations of authentic artists is hardly simply a drop in precision.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#547

Post by [deleted] »

erikbye wrote: post #430
lapcat wrote: post #168

I find it interesting that GenZ and Millennials show a much smaller preference for their own decade's music. https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_pr... The 1980s are still doing quite well among all but the oldest generation. Is it possible that music may actually be getting worse? Corporatized, consolidated, computerized. Look at Hollywood now too: everything is a sequel, prequel, remake, reboot…

Nirvana and early Linkin Park seem to be much more popular among GenZ and Millenials than their own music, and lasting, not just trending or being a fad.

[deleted]

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#548

Post by licebmi__at__ »

tyrust wrote: post #505
licebmi__at__ wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We really need music search which follows more interesting routes through content rather than just 'people who like this also like' or 'here's another album by someone you already listen to'. I wish we had something like /mu/ flowcharts[1] but in a more general way. So after playing a song you can get a question or a prompt of what you liked and get some suggestion based on the input. But IMO, music recommendation p…

last.fm is still around, although I don't use it for recommendations. I've recently enjoyed using RYM to find music. Start with an artist/album I like, click on the genre, and try out the top-rated artists/albums. It's a manual version of the flowchart, you're right that it'd be neat to automate that. I haven't even tried using RYM tags, but they'd probably be useful input, too.

Yeah, when I mentioned last.fm I meant last.fm radio, a short lived service that if I remember right, it was only supposed to be available on the UK, although with the easily bypassed checks of that time.

The description you make about rym sounds similar, so maybe i’ll take a look.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#549

Post by bongodongobob »

khazhoux wrote: post #406
bongodongobob wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but wanting your music algorithm to key in on the composer's skin color is a ridiculous expectation. Listen to albums or make a playlist.

No, he's saying that within the genre of mid-20th century Swing there are distinct musical traditions found in black vs white bands, which he wishes he could partition against. What's ridiculous about that?

Because they all borrowed from each other and the line is blurry if it even exists at all.

Re: When do we stop finding new music?

#550

Post by bongodongobob »

KETHERCORTEX wrote: post #273
bongodongobob wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but wanting your music algorithm to key in on the composer's skin color is a ridiculous expectation. Listen to albums or make a playlist.

In this case it's not that ridiculous because "black" here isn't just a skin color, but primarily a subculture/subgenre with some distinct musical attributes. Nobody finds separating French electronic music into its own subgenre ridiculous. Same with Italian Disco. Such distinct movements are quite usual, so dissatisfaction about Black Swing on streaming services is understandable.

Spotify won't be able to keep those genres separate either.
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