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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#541

Post by zogrodea »

carlosjobim wrote: post #29
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is indeed an analysis that we don't see often enough. Apple is viewed as a "tech company" and tech companies are all about innovation and growth. And their stocks are priced accordingly. But, Apple is actually extremely conservative with product rollouts and new markets (c.f. having essentially missed the boat on AI). They make phones and sell phone apps. They do a few other things, but at the end of the day the…

As long as new people are growing up, they're going to need their own phones, so there will always be a market. The same of course with many other consumer goods.

That's an interesting thought and makes me think, because of declining birth rates and an ageing population, Apple will have fewer and fewer people to sell phones to as time goes on.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#543

Post by jimscard »

jsnell wrote: post #416
threeseed wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) It is fair and non-discriminatory. Epic was found by the courts to have violated the terms of the agreement that they signed and Apple had the right to terminate it. They have done this with other developers as well. b) Epic is not their main competitor in anything.

Have any other companies announced credible plans for a competing app store? I'm at least not aware of any, which would absolutely make Epic their main competitor. It is pretty hilarious how people think some US court judgement would have any relevance on EU anti-trust regulation.

You’re missing a key point by calling this a “competing app store”. That’s not what it would be. It would simply be Epic’s app store with Epic’s apps in it, the purpose being to maximize Epic’s revenue on Epic’s games. Apple, in case you haven’t noticed, isn’t a game company — they don’t compete with Epic. Microsoft does. Steam does. Apple doesn’t. In fact, given that Epic games haven’t been on iOS in ages, there’s literally zero competition even there.

It’s kind of silly to think that other companies that actually compete with Epic would choose to publish via the Epic store, since they’d just be giving money to their competitor. Either they’ll build their own stores or they’ll continue business as usual, using the device manufacturer’s stores.

To your other point, while a US court judgement is unlikely to have direct relevance to EU regulation, it does help establish a pattern of behavior on Epic’s part.

It’s also important to note that the provisions for establishing an alternative app store are designed to protect the consumer. Repeated violations of contractual agreements is clear evidence of a company’s untrustworthiness, and it would be irresponsible for Apple to do anything other than exercise the termination clause as a result..

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#544

Post by CatWChainsaw »

dilap wrote: post #458
CatWChainsaw wrote: post #412

Seems like the message is, sure we lost our case against the EU so we have be more open on the platform/store, but we're just going to ban any developers who even try to take advantage of that. I suppose they're leveraging their duopoly/luxury positions to give everyone the finger. And once again I'm glad I have nothing to do with the Apple ecosystem.

They really seem to be making a mockery of the EU regs here. Will the EU respond quickly and forcefully, or (essentially) admit that Apple is too big to regulate?

IMO, little column A, little column B. EU is good about bringing lawsuits, but because of how law works, judgments are delayed, appealed, reduced, etc. Eye-watering fines are watered down and don't end up meaning much. Viewing the Big Tech names as nation-states by virtue of the sheer power they hold cuts through a lot of BS when people wonder why they do any action that might seem mind-boggling. It's because they think they can get away with doing it, and how often are they proven wrong?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#545

Post by fantyoon »

geodel wrote: post #399
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if, and hear me out, execs could go to jail instead of just their company paying fines as if they're parking tickets? Would they still be as cocky?

Seems current laws look civilized/weak for your taste. I think you'd rather prefer Sunday gala of past where convict would be covered with oil soaked rags and then set on fire. So while that person ran crying, howling it provided tons of entertainment to hardworking folks gathered there. And in that process of course justice prevailed. This is what one call win-win proposition.

I think it would be wise to reflect on whether the next logical step from "I think fines are not effective enough and decision markers should face jail setences" is "I think we should set people on fire as punishment and public entertainment". Do you genuinely believe that a person arguing for the first, would agree or would be close to agreeing with the second?

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#546

Post by zmmmmm »

yakkityyak wrote: post #430
layer8 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Epic doesn’t want to be Apple’s customer in the first place. They want to publish iOS apps. The fact that this requires them to be an Apple customer is the core problem. Imagine if everyone wanting to publish a web app would have to be a customer of the respective browser vendors. Everyone complains about Google and Mozilla and Safari and Edge. Luckily, that doesn’t prevent us from having our web ap…

I don’t quite understand why they happily subscribe to this model with Xbox PlayStation and Nintendo, but are adamant about getting their way with Google and Apple.

It's a good question.

From the EU point of view it may be simply one of scale. If any of those held the amount of market power Apple does, I suspect the EU would designate them Gatekeepers and we would be off to the races.

From the games publisher point of view, the console manufacturer is actually adding significant value and taking a fair (or not so fair) margin in exchage. Apple detracts value, contributes nothing and then charges a huge margin for it. I can see why Epic views it differently.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#547

Post by SllX »

bsimpson wrote: post #502
SllX wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. Non-discriminatory doesn’t mean they have no grounds to terminate Epic’s developer accounts, and Epic is continuing to make themselves look untrustworthy by trying to publicly and explicitly shank Apple. Spotify is also trying to shank Apple in all the same places Epic is, but they also didn’t go behind Apple’s back to deceive the prior review process in con…

Epic does have a history as an app store. They are the main competitor to Steam on Windows, famous for giving away games every week to drive traffic.

Apple doesn’t compete with the Epic Games Store on Windows anymore than the Epic Games Store competes with the App Store on iPhones.

EDIT: just realized I originally mixed up Origin and the Epic Games Store. My bad.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#548

Post by barelysapient »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #463
SllX wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. Non-discriminatory doesn’t mean they have no grounds to terminate Epic’s developer accounts, and Epic is continuing to make themselves look untrustworthy by trying to publicly and explicitly shank Apple. Spotify is also trying to shank Apple in all the same places Epic is, but they also didn’t go behind Apple’s back to deceive the prior review process in con…

>Epic also intentionally broke agreements with Apple before. This is funny to point out since they did it specifically to sue over it (you pretty much can't other wise). So Apple has their draconian 30% cut or there's literally no other way to have an application run on iOS policy, you can't challenge it without breaking it so you can sue, and because you broke it to sue you are now permanently barred from every maki…

> Yea that seems fine, no monopolistic behavior here, it's only 49% of the phone market so it's fine.

iPhone marketshare in the EU is about 22%.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#549

Post by munificent »

kccqzy wrote: post #406
davely wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that Gruber occasionally has some interesting insight but it’s often hard to take him seriously these days — he’s effectively an unofficial PR outlet for Apple. (Fun fact: he co-created Markdown with Aaron Swartz) Edit: Swartz not Schwartz

It's a sad evolution. Gruber's blog is entitled Daring Fireball and in his early blogging days in the '00s he was in fact pretty daring and posted a lot of criticisms of Apple. Over time he had so thoroughly assimilated himself into the Apple way of thinking that he seldom notices whatever Apple is doing wrong.

Really? I've always considered Gruber to be an Apple fanboy. He might write criticisms, but they read to me like a Deadhead penning an essay on why Aoxomoxoa isn't as good as Terrapin Station or something.

Ultimately, Gruber knows his audience is Apple enthusiasts and his material comes from being given access by Apple.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#550

Post by darknavi »

yokoprime wrote: post #518
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #481

At first I was surprised Epic's shareholders tolerate CEO Tim Sweeney – Epic had this all wrapped up, they got a large portion of what they wanted, but Sweeney just couldn't help but keep the drama going, at risk of their business. But then I realized that Tim Sweeney owns more than half of Epic. If he wants to risk his company for a fracas/kerfuffle, then that is between him and his minority shareholder.

I don't think he's risking anything other than having to pay his team of lawyers. Apple is not a major platform for Epic, in fact earnings from sales outside of Windows and consoles is probably so tiny they wouldn't notice it if it disappeared.

> Apple is not a major platform for Epic

Well it's not a platform for Fortnite at all for the last few years.

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