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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#541

Post by flawn »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #465
tsimionescu wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably Israel does it with fairly low civilian: combatant death ratio Fairly low compared to what? The USSR invasion of Afghanistan? Assad engaged in a civil war? WW2 carpet bombings? No recent war has seen anywhere near the deplorable civilian:combatant death ratio that we see here. And if you also take into account that the IDF basically defines adult male as combatant, so that a lot of the "combatants" killed…

> No recent war has seen anywhere near the deplorable civilian:combatant death ratio that we see here. Can you give the numbers for comparison? What are acceptable rate in your opinion?

No rate is acceptable. The debate is not about abiding to any modern war KPIs but rather the intent to minimize civilian casualties. Israel definitely does NOT do that by actively engaging with their current strategy of retaliation and that's already enough to say that, from a human perspective, Israel needs to stop right now and enable any sort of progression into a longer holding peace in that area.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#542

Post by prmoustache »

bawolff wrote: post #493
prmoustache wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Essentially that implies Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. I suspect most Israelis would find that unreasonable. Israeli civilians don't like being killed anymore than Palestinian civilians do. We are talking about Gaza. The only Israelis being shot there are Israeli militari attacking the Gaza strip. If you are talking missiles, well Israel should abandon the colonies and create a no man's…

> We are talking about Gaza. The only Israelis being shot there are Israeli militari attacking the Gaza strip. What exactly do you think happened on oct 7? > If you are talking missiles, well Israel should abandon the colonies and create a no man's land where no civilian, be it Israeli or Palestinian, can go, and only shoot those that trespass. They did do that to Gaza in 2005. That is how we arrived at the current s…

> They did do that to Gaza in 2005. That is how we arrived at the current situation.

It can't work if you don't let palestinians space to live.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#543

Post by incognos »

ciconia wrote: post #25

> Around 10% of Gaza's journalists have been killed versus 2.5% of healthcare workers. One possible explanation is that journalists have a much higher probability of being close to where the fighting is, than healthcare workers.

Or another explanation could be that you do not want the world to learn about your activities.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#544

Post by rakoo »

nsguy wrote: post #377
rakoo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if Russia had been colonizing Scotland, then Wales, then half of England, only left disjointed pockets of UK residents not allowed to vote, being watched 24/7, being beaten, harassed and killed by settlers under the watch of Russian army, and then being beaten when going to the funeral of their dead, being robbed of their natural resources, having to go through checkpoints to see their family, London being h…

It's less of a context than your political position or opinion. I think it's also at the very least naive and simplistic. As one example, those checkpoints you're describing did not exist before terrorism such as suicide bombers and other indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians. They also do not exist in Gaza. I'm finding it hard to follow the rest of your analogy. My context is that Israel withdrew from Gaza in…

And I can also say that your view is less context than a personal biased view on the situation. Mixing up Hamas and Palestinians as if they're all the same. Excusing Israel's response as just and proportionate, meaning that shelling entire neighborhoods, sniping people left and right, shooting at an ambulance are somehow fighting terrorism. Saying on all platforms that the goal is to "exterminate animals", from the highest personnel in positions of power. Shooting civilians who try to get food, blocking humanitarian convoys from entering, putting as part of a plan the total blockade of water, food, electricity of millions of people, that's fighting terrorism ?

> Launching suicide bombers from it and launching 10's of thousands of rockets at Israeli cities. I think this is a more accurate context than yours.

If you want to put context, put context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_co... . But a fight on numbers is stupid so let's not go there. You want to put context as to why 10's of rockets explode on Israel cities, you have to explain why for each rocket Israel retaliates with 10 deaths on Palestinian side. It's all part of it.

> Israel is not "colonizing" anything. The state of Israel is the UN recognized legal entity in Mandatory Palestine,

I don't know how someone can still believe that when there's a page dedicated to illegal Israeli settlements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

EDIT: I'm not even making this up: "Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlements" -- "Israel has built about 160 settlements housing some 700,000 Jews since it occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem - land the Palestinians want as part of a future state - in the 1967 Middle East war" https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490034>

> But Palestinians have been attacking Israelis all along as well in some pretty bad ways and refusing to try and settle.

Oh come on. Let my country come to your land, force you to leave by hundred thousands, harass you, beat you, kill you, and let's see if you accept me settling there nicely and comfortably.

We could go on and on and on but please put the context if you want to talk about it, the real one, not the one you pick. The one that is internationally recognized but no one says anything because of interests. The one that is plain visible for all to see. There is suffering on all sides, please don't pretend it's easy.

Maybe we don't even disagree. The real conflict is between the Israel State and the Palestinian "State", or governing bodies. Let those far-right atrocities who know and help each other fight in a cage and leave the population, on both side, alone.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#545

Post by incognos »

karim79 wrote: post #288
boringg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally different war structure.

I agree. In Ukraine, combatants are not fighting from within an overpopulated prison camp.

Sorry, correction, Concentration Camp would be a proper term in this case. Prison implies a crime, the only crime is that they are born in an occupied land by a brutal occupier.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#546

Post by suslik »

GordonS wrote: post #514
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political aim was to cause a LOT of casualties. I'm not going to disagree that this is ugly stuff, but Hamas must have known this was the result. Also I do think the Israelis think they can get a large amount of Hamas leadership. Gaza is a mafia state under control by Hamas, who likely control all aid coming into the country and certainly the Iranian military funding. Israel seems to apply a 10x minimum response…

> I think Egypt has room to take in Palestinian refugees. They simply refuse to do it. I have not gotten any good reason why they hate them. I guess the Lebanese hate their Palestinian enclave. It is clear the Arab world doesn't care about the Palestinians, and a common brotherhood of Islam doesn't carry weight. This is a bad take. Egypt, and others, refuse to take "Palestinian refugees" because doing so would make t…

Why on earth would accepting refugees make them complicit? Is Poland complicit in the Russian attack on Ukraine because they allowed the refugees in?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#548

Post by incognos »

nsguy wrote: post #61
hmcq6 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unfounded. I'm still waiting on a single shred of evidence to drop about the AP building from 2-3 years ago https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israe... > Which unfortunately means prohibitions on bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship are now obsolete. Even if Hamas was fighting from hospitals and schools that is not how this works. Israel would be required to give those schools…

Israel has ordered hospitals to evacuate, e.g.: https://healthpolicy-watch.news/who-calls-for-israel-to-resc... I think you're generally wrong on the "they have not been doing" comment. Israel has been giving warnings, and those warnings were intentionally being ignored to maximize the damage to Israel's reputation. But if you have some comprehensive data here I'd be interested in seeing it. From my observation the p…

What you have neglected is history. The last time Israel pushed people out of their homes, they were not allowed to return. This fact is seared into the memory of every Palestinian for generations. They carry the keys to their original homes to this day. So forgive them for not wanting to abandon their only homes because they want to kill people they have been abusing for decades. Please read your history prior to making unfounded statements and justifications.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#549

Post by zizee »

falseprofit wrote: post #263
zizee wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying this war has a higher civilian casualty ratio that other wars? Sadly history shows that civilians have been casualties of war at high rates compared to combatants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio

That article suggests the average ratio to be 1:1, so yes this war has a higher ratio.

The article also gives examples of many major wars, with the majority of examples have numbers of civilians killed usually greater than combatants.

So, as horrific as this war has been, I don't think the claim that this is "one of the the deadliest wars for civilians in general" holds up.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#550

Post by incognos »

hersko wrote: post #152
tehjoker wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, you can watch this documentary where journalists wearing identifying gear away from the action were shot by a sniper during the peaceful "March of Return" (2018). These were the "Palestinian Gandhis" Israel supporters keep talking about. They were massacred. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZSaKYmP2s

> peaceful "March of Return" How is trying to storm a sovereign border peaceful? Pretty sure if a mob stormed any normal government border they would be shot.

Sovereign Border? are you recognizing a State of Palestine and it's borders? last I checked none of those existed, so therefore your argument of storming a sovereign border is null and void. They marched near the walls of their concentration camp, no one stormed anything and they were clearly shot at from a distance. I am appaled that so many "intelligent" people just regurgitate what they learned from the idiot box instead of being truly informed. The photos and videos are there for you to see... go look, read...
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