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Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

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Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#541
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperbole and language like this is exactly why it's so hard to have this debate in any rational way. The onsite crowd says that all their WFH colleagues are playing video games and doing laundry all day while the WFH crowd says employers are stealing from their employees' children.

I don't think the WFH crowd minds others going into the office. The pro onsite crowd on the other hand wants others forced into the office because their choice is unsupportable if people are given a free choice. >98% of workers want to work remote at least some of the time 65% report wanting to work remote all of the time. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/remote-work-statisti... If 1/3 of your workforce meets…

I definitely like being able to wfh some of the time and I think having to work from office some of the time is a good compromise. When people aren't forced to go people don't go. Even i don't go, and i hate wfh all week. Because once people stop turning up, it starts to be pointless to go. I'm going because i need ftf interaction with people. If nobody turns up its not even fun. Also I have terrible time blindness and if I'm not forced to be somewhere at a certain time I will never get there....

Anyyway, where-ever i've been though that encourages a few days a week in the office, everyone says the big days where everyone comes in and we catch up are fun. The wfh days give us balance. only a handful of people attempt to avoid coming in like the plague. Most people don't like having to commute all the time, but very few people hate going outside and seeing people at work like the wierdos that argue for 100% wfh online.

I have a colleague that takes like a 1.5 hour train to get in and we just went to the pub together after work yesterday, sometimes i let her stay over at mine so she can be in office for an extra day. I love seeing this person. If there was no mandatory office, we would not be friends. Last year I worked 99% remote and I barely ever spoke to human beings and I wanted to die. We are not made to exist like that. And I think the wfh crowd is way too skewed towards middle aged people with spouses and children. If you don't have that wfh ruins your life.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the WFH crowd minds others going into the office. The pro onsite crowd on the other hand wants others forced into the office because their choice is unsupportable if people are given a free choice. >98% of workers want to work remote at least some of the time 65% report wanting to work remote all of the time. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/remote-work-statisti... If 1/3 of your workforce meets…

Although you’re probably right, I think you’ve got the motivation of the pro office crowd wrong. They want folks in office because if any significant part of your team is remote then you are effectively working remote, even if you’re in an office.

Yep. Bingo. I want to interact with human beings otherwise my mental health tanks. I don't want to work remote and I even less so want to work in an empty office. If the office is empty I'm not going there because its twice as depressing.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#543
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call it nothing either. I’d call it “actually getting a decent amount of exercise,” something many struggle with.

That sounds like a self-discipline problem.

You wierdos want everyone to have to micromanage our own mental health like we're islands. Humans are social creatures with social rituals for a reason. We go mad without them. People shouldn't have to force themselves to do everything without any social support. (and i go to the gym 4 times a week with my own discipline so no im not incapable i just don't want to have to do that about everything ever)

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and to be clear I’m less commenting on productivity, more on the soft stuff like sense of belonging to the org, enjoying time at work, and building real relationships. These things are strictly local, no one expects to form relationships with the accounting team in Ireland, and having an explicit process for interacting with them is probably more important than an explicit process for interacting with your manager…

I mean I get the intention of this stuff, but some of it skates dangerously close to accidental discrimination. I am not accusing you of this, but just saying people should be mindful it can accidentally lead you down the wrong path. Places that are very focussed on "culture fit" or if they'd "have a beer" with the person they are interviewing.. leaves a lot of people behind. Women / non native speakers / older folks…

No its highly important that they will grab a pint after. If you've ever been part of a sports team you would know team morale is vitaly important to them and they socialise and party together ALL THE TIME. The military do it to. Anywhere where you need strong teams you need to have downtime with your team. Its WAY harder to do that remote. I've rarely made friendships with people 100% remote. It's not natural. And I never want to work somewhere where there aren't a decent amount of people that I would grab a pint with after work. And I'm like gay, nonbinary, and mixed race in like an predominantly straight male tech department. I love drinking with my colleagues it makes me feel like I'm not a robot and like I care about getting work done for them. Otherwise, I wouldn't give a single shit about making money for someone else.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and to be clear I’m less commenting on productivity, more on the soft stuff like sense of belonging to the org, enjoying time at work, and building real relationships. These things are strictly local, no one expects to form relationships with the accounting team in Ireland, and having an explicit process for interacting with them is probably more important than an explicit process for interacting with your manager…

I always thought that's kind of a bullshit thing. I have plenty of friends outside of work. I work for a living and I'm a professional doing a job, not a kid on a play date. The cynic in me always felt that people who emphasize this benefit of office work just can't make friends unless people are forced to hang out with them every day.

Yep, I've been bullied the whole time growing up and I didn't start making friends until I was about 20. I am friendly but I'm not good at making friends with people I might never meet again at parties. Wfh makes me want to hang myself so maybe have some empathy that not everyones a thriving social butterfly like yourself.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#546
My company did it's own research and found it was sales professionals who could not be trusted with WFH, but engineers for the most part were just as productive ..However, they found they their teamwork and multi-departmental collaboration suffered immensely and were not willing to make technology investments when people could just go into HQ or the many other offices we have.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that's kind of a bullshit thing. I have plenty of friends outside of work. I work for a living and I'm a professional doing a job, not a kid on a play date. The cynic in me always felt that people who emphasize this benefit of office work just can't make friends unless people are forced to hang out with them every day.

Yep, I've been bullied the whole time growing up and I didn't start making friends until I was about 20. I am friendly but I'm not good at making friends with people I might never meet again at parties. Wfh makes me want to hang myself so maybe have some empathy that not everyones a thriving social butterfly like yourself.

I am sorry for what you had to go through and I have empathy for the fact that it's not easy for everyone to make friends.

That being said, there's lots of meetups, clubs, organized sports etc etc for people looking for a structured way to continuously hang out with a group of people sharing their interests. The key thing there is that it's voluntary association though.

Being forced to hang out with coworkers who you might not even like just because they happen to have the same employer shouldn't be a substitute for putting in an effort to make friends.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add one major change that the work from home experiment has achieved - its made the opportunity cost of the work commute clear. This is a time cost paid for by the worker. As you stated, this is variable. If you have a short commute, or you like it, or you get some exercise - office is great. If you hate your commute, if its 3 hours in pollution and traffic - not so much. Earlier the position was that WFH was…

Not just time cost, but also monetary cost. At least in tech, most jobs exist in a small set of metro areas where housing prices are incredibly high. Pushing for more remote work enables more flexibility in where people live / can ease some of the housing pressure on these congested metros.

This is one of the reasons I've stayed remote, in spite of being OK in an office environment (and sometimes preferring it).

I'm moving out to a town 3 hours away, which is not really commutable into London. It's a better quality of life, and the housing options are much better. Selfishly, I don't much care about the housing pressure in London, but I do care about whether I can spend my downtime going places and doing things I enjoy, and remote working makes that MUCH easier.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I've been bullied the whole time growing up and I didn't start making friends until I was about 20. I am friendly but I'm not good at making friends with people I might never meet again at parties. Wfh makes me want to hang myself so maybe have some empathy that not everyones a thriving social butterfly like yourself.

I am sorry for what you had to go through and I have empathy for the fact that it's not easy for everyone to make friends. That being said, there's lots of meetups, clubs, organized sports etc etc for people looking for a structured way to continuously hang out with a group of people sharing their interests. The key thing there is that it's voluntary association though. Being forced to hang out with coworkers who you…

I dunno man, work is most of my life so it should be an enjoyable social experience for me otherwise it's just a mind-numbing time sink. For me its really important that I find a workplace with a good culture where I can have social interaction several days a week, because it's quite draining for me to constantly go to meetups and try really hard to make friends.

There are some social spaces I try to go to regularly but the people who turn up are not always the same. A lot of the time I'll manage to connect with one person, which is hard for me, and then I will never see them again even if I keep going to the same event. Or I see them about once every couple of months at the event. Or on the one day I'm going to the event my energy levels are low and I feel overstimulated by the novel environment and I don't manage to really speak to people. Putting myself out there a lot to new people in new places is something that I find stressful because I have been rejected and made fun of for trying to connect with people for the majority of my life. Honestly, i always had an issue with this, but I became better at being sociable in uni. Being in my house most of my time has brought my XP down and I find that the more I am stuck inside the more I regress in my abilities. I find it really hard to leave the house once I become unaccustomed to it. My brain just starts to break down.

I think a sports team might be the most consistent spaces but I'm pretty dyspraxic and when I do team sports I end up getting anxious and like hitting my team members in the face. I can't do that sort of thing.

What works for me is having a consistent space where I can slowly build up relationships with people over time. This is sort of how things have worked for the whole of human history. Work, school, uni, sports teams. This is where people make most of their friends. Always has been, always will be. And again, if I have to be working for most of my waking hours, I don't want to do it alone in my little box. It's not enjoyable. And saying that I must meet all of my social needs from concerted effort outside of work on top of all the other responsibilities I have is insane to me.

When I have a workplace that i know i can go into and see people a couple times a week, my mental health and energy levels are better and my social XP is stronger and I can actually enjoy socialising. Last year i was mostly remote, this year I've found a company with compulsory 2-3 days a week and lots of other young people. Its amazing. I finally feel okay. And yeah if I was working somewhere where I hated everyone and I didn't get any benefits other than money I would LEAVE. Don't stay at a place like that. Your mental health is too valuable and work should enhance your life otherwise you're literally ruining 80% of your waking moments.

Edit: on the point of leaving, yes i know some people have kids and can't move around like that. but this is why i'm pro mandatory hybrid not 100% in office. workplaces should be okay with you needing to stay home when your kids need sth or you coming 2 days if you live past a certain distance instead of 3 days. My office accomodates this. I come in 3, others come in 2 because they have long commutes. Everyone is fine with it. 100% wfh just punishes anyone who doesn't have kids.

Re: Remote work doesn't seem to affect productivity, Fed study finds

#550
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This nearby comment does a good job explaining why that doesn't really work out for me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39042945

I can't help but feel that is a rationalisation.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. You're arguing I would be a happier or better person if I stopped doing a thing I enjoy doing? Why?
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