The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#541

Post by Lord-Jobo » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:45 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #50

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

This is the standard conservative "big government" and "young people today don't want to work" rant. > The problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Regulation yes, but it's not the lack of building; we're building like crazy all over North America. Many new homes are "lost" and become second or third homes for the wealthy or airbnb rentals. Regul…

>Ah yes, the welfare queen rant. People aren't "refusing to work", many are sick (physically and/or mentally) and/or homeless and can't take on jobs, not because they are lazy but because no one hires someone who smells like they haven't showered in a month. Companies are the ones resorting to financial schemes and illegal activity; wage theft and union busting is big business. Companies are freeloading FAR more than sick people.

I really need to emphasis an aspect of this for anyone else reading: Wage theft is larger (in dollars) than the next biggest type of theft (robberies) by around 300%.(https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-2021/) Its not even close. Corporations are literally the biggest thieves in America by a tremendous margin.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#542

Post by Kalium » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:45 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #478

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

What government policy would allow for a 2k apartment building and not a $500 apartment building? I just don't buy this argument. The reason there's not a $500 apartments being built is because by expanding the residence out just a tiny bit you can charge $2000 for the same space that 2 $500 apartments would occupy. I'm seeing this play out where I live that has practically no zoning laws or regulations (LOTS of buil…

In many places, a combination of requirements become a de facto floor on apartment size. Examples include requirements for natural light, parking minimums, and shared common spaces.

Some cities, like Seattle, go so far as to set an explicit minimum apartment size. It's obviously going to be challenging to build a brand new $500/mo apartment if it cannot be less than 500 sqft.

All that said, looking few brand new cheap apartments is generally the wrong approach. There's a whole filtering process of older apartments that's supposed to assure that. Similarly, nobody expects brand new cars to be price-competitive with fifteen year old Honda Civics.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#543

Post by SamoyedFurFluff » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:45 PM UTC

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #493

ohyes wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then people wonder why none of us are having families. You’re too poor in your 20s, then you aren’t able to biologically by the time you’re in your 40s. But by then everyone in their 40s has the “I’ve got mine” mentality so nothing changes. We live in the stupidest timeline.

I don't wonder why people aren't having families because the reason is obviously that they don't want to. It's not because things are worse now than ever in human history; that's pure rationalization/delusion/cope.

I believe a more accurate description is that people are choosing not to have children in the current environment; maybe something in the environment is detected as unsuitable for children, since human biology hasn’t changed but the birth rate has gone down.

If this kind of birthdate collapse happened in other organized animal societies we’d have lots of news pointing to specific environmental hazards, like that insecticide and bird eggs.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#544

Post by jeffbee » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #406

jeffbee wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think Boomers share a lot of blame for where we're at, policy wise, but also not everyone who is a Boomer had a say in poor housing policy (ie NIMBYs keeping us short millions of housing units over decades), the deprecation of pensions for 401ks that no one could afford to fund (due to globalization and stagnant incomes), an employment environment where you could become unemployed in your 50s or early 60s with no c…

> we can work towards fixing it with policy that benefits the Boomers who are left

As a member of Walk Bike Berkeley and Berkeley Neighbors for Housing and Climate Action I go to war every week, against Boomers, for the exact policies that will benefit them: more housing, better transit and walking facilities. And every week they show up to denounce those policies using their tired Boomer memes. Building housing is "trickle-down economics". A street that's suitable for all ages and all modes is "radical bike lobby". Both of these organizations are full of hundreds of younger people dedicated to saving Boomers from themselves.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#545

Post by rmk » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #478

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

What government policy would allow for a 2k apartment building and not a $500 apartment building? I just don't buy this argument. The reason there's not a $500 apartments being built is because by expanding the residence out just a tiny bit you can charge $2000 for the same space that 2 $500 apartments would occupy. I'm seeing this play out where I live that has practically no zoning laws or regulations (LOTS of buil…

Didn't Boise, ID have an influx of better-off people from the coasts during the Pandemic? If plenty of luxury housing is being built it was likely in response to that. Ultimately those houses will get rented or otherwise occupied, which should free up housing at the lower end.

Compare this to places in the Bay Area, where it's not practical to spread out any farther (no good public transport because of a dozen or more transit agencies that are always fighting and Caltrain, which is a hugely dysfunctional organization that can't even run trains at a piddling frequency). We have houses being blocked using CEQA and other nonsense, all because people who work in unproductive industries or not at all (non-tech, retirees) have decided to get more than their share by denying permits for new construction.

What's better? Some housing being built or none at all?

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#546

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

dghlsakjg wrote: post #496

ryandrake wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specific government policy is causing developers to only build $2k+/mo rentals? You can't just vaguely say "government" is at fault without connecting the dots. This seems more like the market's fault. If homes in a particular area are going for $2k/mo, then that's what they are going for. If this is the government's fault, are you proposing price controls?

There are a ton of requirements placed on what can even qualify as housing. To stick close to the example, rooming houses (SROs) are effectively illegal in most cities these days. You simply can't have a commercial venture that rents out cheap barebones bedrooms with shared bathrooms. That's due to regulations that were designed to get rid of rooming houses. Bedrooms are also required by law to have a window and clos…

The middle ground that many people are finding between apt and tent is a vehicle. Like vanlife but carlife.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#547

Post by angmarsbane » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

User23 wrote: post #327

spir wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only perceive corporate landlords as the greater problem because we're not living in the counterfactual reality where there are millions of new apartments that are inexpensive, tiny, safe, quiet, modern, clean, dignified, and well-located. In pretty much every major city in North America, it is illegal or there is too much red tape to build the affordable housing people actually want. Why is it that living in a t…

> build the affordable housing people actually want. And the unspeakable little problem that people don't want to live around the people who will be living in the affordable housing people actually want. Hence, NIMBY.

I think this may be changing as older Americans realize it is their own middle class children who need affordable housing in order to live close by with grandchildren.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#548

Post by jeffbee » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

maxwell wrote: post #538

justin66 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most intriguing thing about boomers is that they all believe exactly the same things.

Intriguing maybe, but not surprising. It seems like they all grew up watching the same TV shows/news, eating the same food, and reading/watching/listening to mostly the same books/movies/music.

I think they were being sarcastic, and their point is taken.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#549

Post by incahoots » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

alexb_ wrote: post #262

mcv wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the problem is government regulation. And not just too much regulation, but the wrong kind of regulation, and a lack of regulation in areas that need it. Someone in the article was forced out of her home because her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal. Corporations buying up homes in order to drive up prices shouldn't be allowed. Lots of things are allowed that shouldn't be. A…

> Someone in the article was forced out of her home because her landlord suddenly raised her rent by $500. That shouldn't be legal. Rent gets raised by $500 because someone else would actually pay that much. Rent control is the ultimate "I got mine" - it rewards people who got in early while making it impossible for anyone else to have housing. The reason rent could go up that much is because supply is so artificiall…

> Rent control is the ultimate "I got mine" - it rewards people who got in early while making it impossible for anyone else to have housing

As opposed to someone willing to sacrifice their health by working multiple jobs to live in a such a place.

Rent control works, the problem is we don’t build enough homes to resolve the “not enough” problem. The construction industry is working skeleton crews currently due to the 2008 recession where thousands lost their jobs and never came back.

Then you have the issue with exorbitant property values in metro-like cities which prevent nonprofits and local governments from sitting at the bargaining table. Building outside of the city has its own unique issues.

Arguing that rent control doesn’t work is pretty disingenuous.

Re: The elderly are becoming homeless at a rate not seen since the Great Depression

#550

Post by klipt » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #16

Part of the problem is government regulation. In some places, it's almost impossible to build new houses due to regulations. Some portion of the population wants to see house prices continue to increase and they will vote for politicians who will implement policies which will support that agenda. Of course this happens at the expense of another, also large portion of the population who do not own a house and have to…

> I think we have a situation where part of the population is literally voting to appropriate wealth from another part of the population

With varying degrees of subtlety, I think this is most of politics. Corporations and small business/asset owners lobby or vote for laws that favor or subsidize them all the time. Homeowners are a very large class of voter that all own the same type of asset.

But at least for people with kids it seems very short sighted to cripple your own kids' lifestyle just for a higher number in your bank account.