Maybe Rust isn’t a good tool for massively concurrent, userspace software

Post by likeabbas » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 11:52 AM UTC

withoutboats3 wrote: post #524

likeabbas wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love(d) rust because it’s a pleasant language to write code for while also being insanely performant. Async is taking away the first point and making it miserable to write code for. If this trend continues, it’ll ultimately destroy the credibility of the language and people will choose other languages. The proposers of async did not take this into account when they were proposing async

I designed async/await and I absolutely did take this into account. I designed it to be as pleasant as possible under the constraints.

Post by fauigerzigerk » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 12:29 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #235

Pauan wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust embraces abstractions because Rust abstractions are zero-cost. So you can liberally create them and use them without paying a runtime cost. That makes abstractions far more useful and powerful, since you never need to do a cost-benefit analysis in your head, abstractions are just always a good idea in Rust.

> abstractions are just always a good idea The "zero-cost" phrase is deceptive. There's a non-zero cognitive cost to the author and all subsequent readers. A proliferation of abstractions increases the cost of every other abstraction further due to complex interactions. This is true of in all languages where the community has embraced the idea of abstraction without moderation.

Post by pzmarzly » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

bboozzoo wrote: post #309

jzelinskie wrote: post #101

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As a quite senior Go developer, I'd like to +1 this a ton. You're far more likely to have shocking edge cases unaccounted for when using channels. I consider every usage very, very carefully. Just like every other language, I think the ultimate solution is to build higher-level abstractions for concurrency patterns (e.g. errgroup) and, now that Go has generics, it's the right time to start building them. If you haven…

The first one is indeed non-obvious, but the remaining snippets presented as bugs would not pass a review unless hidden inside 1k+ LOC PRs. Some are so blatantly obvious (seriously for loop and not passing current value as variable?) that I'm surprised that authors have listed them as if they're somehow special.

Post by satvikpendem » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 1:51 PM UTC

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #485

satvikpendem wrote: post #113

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> But then rust also has channels. When you read about it, it talks about "messages", which to me means little objects. Like a few bytes little. This is the solution, pretty much everything I write now is just a few tasks that service some channels. They look at what's arrived and if there's something to output, they will put a message on the appropriate channel for another task to deal with. No sharing objects or an…

OOP was a shit idea that needed to die.

Post by ttfkam » Sat, Sep 09, 2023, 2:03 PM UTC

winrid wrote: post #240

Animats wrote: post #223

OK, I suppose I should write to this. As I've mentioned before, I'm writing a high performance metaverse client. Here's a demo video.[1] It's about 40,000 lines of Rust so far. If you are doing a non-crappy metaverse, which is rare, you need to wrangle a rather excessive amount of data in near real time. In games, there's heavy optimization during game development to prevent overloading the play engine. In a metavers…

I'm doing basically the same thing in Java for an MMO and the JDK makes it so easy. Just move objects via concurrent queues from network to model creation to UI threads. It's actually quite boring, and fast!