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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#541

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

wvenable wrote: post #181
hooby wrote: post #143

I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…

The hardware and software, in any device, should not be so inextricably linked as to prevent the hardware from working at all without the software. Regardless of whether we are taking about iPhones, computers, cars, or farm equipment.

Remember, in the US at least, you might own the physical hardware, but you're only licensing the software.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#542

Post by _piif »

solarkraft wrote: post #430
flohofwoe wrote: post #426

Since this is an example of increasing individual freedom at the cost of corporate freedom, I wonder about the silence of US citizens about the whole topic. I always thought the 'land of the free' slogan is about individuals, not companies ;)

(american voice) You're free to buy another product!

So I have a choice between a walled garden (for my best interests of course) and straight up spyware - unless of course I'm willing to play a game of "where's waldo" where I find the perfect combination of android phone with a model number which does not have a locked bootloader, good prolonged community support, custom ROMs with a good reputation and not just a bunch of modifications thrown together by some random XDA user, no weird hardware attestation shenanigans and then participating in the eternal cat and mouse game of SafetyNet breaking my apps because I am not running on a supported configuration (again for my best interests). How flattering.

I know your reply was meant to be satire but I've heard that argument used legit for this case many times. I just don't know how it can be taken seriously in a duopoly like this - unless they are seriously considering GNU/Linux phones to be ready as a primary daily driver or want me to carry around a dumb phone instead?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#543

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

wvenable wrote: post #189
chenzhekl wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it is way too hard to cleanly separate the hardware from the software without introducing extra complexity and security issues.

How so? The iPhone is literally just a computer and the vast majority of computers are cleanly separate from their software.

That's baloney - virtually no computers these days are "cleanly separate" from their software, at least outside of tiny microcontrollers. Do you have any idea how much software executes before they even get to the point where the operating system beings to boot?

The idea that a CPU is going to come out of reset and start executing instructions that you provide at the reset vector is thirty years out of date.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#544

Post by heavyset_go »

SXX wrote: post #485
heavyset_go wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

For years Google been stamping "standards" one after another even though other browser vendors were against many of them and they end up being Chrome-only. No matter what Apple itself does Safari being major non-Chromium browser helps Firefox a lot just by existing and having huge marketshare.

How does Apple dragging their feet on implementing the Web Push notification standard, that is necessary for PWAs, in anyway help in that situation? Literally every browser except Safari implemented the the standard, and not out of some noble anti-Google crusade. PWAs threaten the App Store monopoly's moneyhose.

How does Apple releasing proprietary web standards just for Safari, like Safari Push Notifications, help in anyway with the purported problem of companies stamping out web standards without consensus? It seems like it's only a problem when Google does it, but when Apple does it, it's Safari "helping Firefox just exist".

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#545

Post by [deleted] »

heavyset_go wrote: post #538
kiicia wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

Someone's dislike of PWAs is irrelevant to whether or not someone else should be able to use them if they want to. It's also irrelevant when it comes to users who want to benefit from competition in the app distribution market. If you don't like PWAs, you're free to not use them, and you're even free to benefit from the improvements their competition brings to the whole mobile software ecosystem. It's also ironic to…

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#546

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #205
hayst4ck wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might be the choice we're making and it seems like the first is obviously what owning a device should be like. What if I actually want to pay a fee to a tightly controlled service? Like what if I do the math and determine that that benefits me more than actually owning the device? Should a regulatory agency be able to come in and tell this tightly controlled service they aren't doing it right when I am a h…

Then Apple should have to call it “Subscribe to iPhone “ or “Gain admission to iPhone” or “Use iPhone” - but not “Buy iPhone” as they very much do. If you buy a piece of hardware, you buy a piece of hardware.

You own the hardware. You're welcome to keep it on your shelf indefinitely; give it away; set it on fire. You're absolutely free to run your own software on it. Go ahead. Oh, you can't? You don't have the skills? The manufacturer made it difficult for you? The hardware prevents you? Too bad; if you wanted different hardware maybe you should have bought different hardware. Caveat emptor.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#549

Post by Sporktacular »

I wonder if security code will now become region-specific too. It would be a terrible pity if stats go on to show EU devices got hacked more than their Apple Store-only equivalents right around the time they opened up.

Not saying they would, but maybe something to watch out for.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#550

Post by mnd999 »

IceWreck wrote: post #502
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

So you're saying Apple knows what I like and what I don't ? It should be my choice

Apple knows what they think is good. It turns out lots of people agree or they wouldn’t be so successful.

You have a choice, if you don’t like it buy an Android phone. Or a Sailfish phone, or a KDE phone our one of the other open source phones where the only “apps” are low quality PWA crap. Look how successful they are.

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