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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#541

Post by kqr »

photochemsyn wrote: post #269
hedora wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Review / feedback programs are terrible (5/5: would f*ck over soulless management again). If the whole point of eliminating tips is to treat the workers fairly, why not institute some sort of profit share, or monthly bonus based on YoY revenue growth? Either way, you should accept cash.

I think profit share is not a bad idea, but to make it fair, it should also involve some degree of risk sharing. Counting up the costs of opening a coffee establishment (is it a roaster as well?), it's not as high as some other businesses but there's rent, equipment, seats and tables, etc. If every employee and the owner was a member of something like a LLC, what would the buy-in be? I have no idea, maybe $10K each o…

Employees spend half their waking hours at work. That's a huge opportunity cost. I don't get where the idea comes from that they take no risk!

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#542

Post by autoexec »

tsmarsh wrote: post #387
ddyevf635372 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any tip in New Zealand and Australia. Everybody get proper salary. The service is always exceptional. How is that possible?

Look at the UK. Tipping has gotten weird in the last decade but the service culture is just missing. The service industry is what you do in high school or college because it’s the first cost that the food service industry wants to optimize. Consumers don’t expect or demand good service, so we don’t get it.

> The service industry is what you do in high school or college

most people working in the service industry are not teenagers and college kids. For restaurants and fast food joints adult workers are more common.

https://datausa.io/profile/soc/fast-food-and-counter-workers

https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percen...

The average retail worker is over 40.

These aren't "summer jobs" for pocket money or children's first steps into the workforce, they're the jobs adults depend on to keep their rent/utilities paid and their families fed.

Someone 25 years of age and older can deliver exceptional service, they just aren't paid enough to care to.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#543

Post by klintcho »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

That is awesome! When you say: what the price on the menu is that is what the customer pays; does it include sales tax as well? If so, def a very happy development and pretty much revolutionary for being in the US. If not, is it something you could consider doing? I think it would be the next natural step :) Disclaimer: I’m Swedish, all prices in Sweden everywhere is always including everything, you’ll never pay more than what you see.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#544

Post by saghm »

A few days ago I got dinner delivered, and I added a $5 tip through the app (which came out to about 22%). When the delivery person came, he expressed disappointment about the size of the tip, which really surprised me. As much as I know that it would be better for businesses to pay better wages rather than tips being expected, I also know that the system being unfair isn't any consolation to workers who are just trying to make a living and don't have any power over the situation, so I've always tried to make sure that I give a sizable tip whenever receiving any sort of service where it might be expected. I admit that I haven't had any recent discussions with anyone who relies on tips to make a living in the past several years (the last one that I remember was a discussion with my older brother who had waited tables at a restaurant for several years), but my general understanding was that 15% tends to be low enough to not make up for below minimum wage that restaurants can get away with paying due to exceptions in law for jobs where tips are expected, but that 20% was a good baseline. Has this expectation changed in recent years? (Based on the specific wording of the complaint, I know that the delivery person did see the exact amount I tipped, so I don't think that the complaint was due to the app taking a share, but I guess I don't know for sure since he might have assumed I knew that or didn't think to mention it).

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#545

Post by Jataman606 »

mikhael28 wrote: post #515
bigtunacan wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 5.5% of Americans don't have bank accounts and pay primarily with cash. Most of these people are impoverished minorities, specifically blacks and Latinos. Not accepting cash is a pretty discriminatory practice.

Handling cash is a hassle. It carries risk in terms of losing it, and it takes time to count it and transport/deposit it into a bank. All things that eat into your profit margin, in an industry that has crazy low margin. You a hater.

How much money you lose by counting money and depositing it into a bank?

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#546

Post by mixmastamyk »

shostack wrote: post #533
yafbum wrote: post #449

There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of…

Don't forget: - Asking for a tip for takeout orders - Asking for the payment including tip before you've received service, often via one of those stupid QR menus that does who knows what with your order data that is now tied to your phone - Not having 20% as a tip option, but something like 18%, 23%, 27% - Looming over your shoulder while you enter the tip I want servers to make a livable wage. I'm willing to pay mor…

Also calculating the tip including the tax, instead of just the products/service provided.

(Shouldn't be tipping on tax, if you really want to send it to the IRS. :)

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#547

Post by grecy »

peteforde wrote: post #518
grecy wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian, living in Canada for 10 years, just went back to Australia for 18 months, now back in Canada. I have some experience here. I love not tipping, and for me personally, the service in Australia is perfectly fine. I took my (Canadian) partner to Australia (her first time there). For her, the service was nowhere even remotely close to that of Canada. In Australia, someone might take your order (or you orde…

I had to read this a few times to make sure that, yes, you are actually implying that service in Canada is somehow particularly great. I've lived here all of my life, but traveled very extensively. I would give the typical Canadian service interaction a neutral pass; they aren't openly rude, nor are they offering to wash my car. Where are you going to eat that someone taking your order, bringing it to you and checkin…

> you are actually implying that service in Canada is somehow particularly great.

I was saying that service in Canada is noticeably "better" than service in Australia.

So what I'm actually implying, is that service in Australia is quite "lacking". By lacking I mean nobody "waits" on you. You often order at the bar, pickup your own food and cutlery, re-fil your own water and walk to the bar to buy yourself a drink.

Even a "sit down" restaurant will really only take your order and bring your food, nothing more. Fancier is different, but then you're paying more for the food.

As I said, I'm perfectly happy with that level of "service" because it means no tipping.

Of course, minimum wage in Australia is $21.38 with benefits, leave, healthcare, etc. etc. For everyone.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#548

Post by jraph »

andirk wrote: post #462
expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

I prefer paying cash. It is also elitist to not accept cash because it means I need a credit card or an expensive phone, neither of which I have on me while jogging. I also don't jog, but you get the point. At my gym I had a keychain bar code that worked great. Now I need my phone, phone charged, brightness up, their stupid app, signed in, open it up, click check-in. It turned a 2 second 1 gram device in to this whol…

> I also don't jog, but you get the point

No, I don't. Carrying a card is way easier than carrying cash while jogging. Thin, smaller, more lightweight.

I see one benefit of cash: the privacy.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#549

Post by 6aagaba »

csomar wrote: post #281
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I wonder if all these laid off engineers will end up opening small businesses and using their skill to cut one or two employees. Maybe we'll finally get a push toward real automation.

> Maybe we'll finally get a push toward real automation.

That's not at all what I'm looking for going to a coffee shop. I like the personal connection to the persons behind the counter. A short chat, sittinf down with friends, watching the barista clean the machine and make a coffee. It's the last place where I want to see automation and already touch screens that I as a customer need to operate to order are mildly off-putting and counter to a cozy feel. For me at least.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#550

Post by Dylan16807 »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #322
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a religious university and there was a certain ethics class everybody was required to take. A discussion topic one day was about how to advertise you were a member of this faith while out and about, and the topic of tipping came up. The lecture pretty much worked out like you should be tipping big! People don't treat waiters so well after the religious service ends! At least 20% to share the good news:tm: w…

This actually happened because Christians (maybe other religions too?) got a reputation for being bad tippers. IDK, maybe it was something about already giving 10% before tax to God to take care of orphans and widows, but seeing their pastor and politician in highend cars and suits? IDK. So as a counter to that reputation pastors began to admonish folks to tip well, to show them the love of Jesus as 20%.

As far as bad reputation, don't forget all the fake-money evangelizing pamphlets.
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