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The strange case of Britain’s demise

economist.com

541–550 of 584 posts

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#541
post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> two countries offer entirely different lives Curious about this. Could you please elaborate? Like, the differences in lives of a software developer in, say Toronto and San Francisco (other than salary)? Just curious.

There was an interesting reading a while ago, trying to find. It basically boiled down to "The Canadian dream is move to America". Canada is a middle-class, "middle-all", in fact, country with, in my opinion little excitement. But then again, that's just my personal opinion. Factually, yeah, the US offers more purchase power, better salaries and better mobility.

From a quick search would it be https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31378415 ?

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#542

Like in the US, democracy in the United Kingdom is faltering. Our first past the post electoral system means the Tories can retain power with a third of the (active) electorate voting for them. Labour believes first past the post serves them well, but it doesn’t, because they would have been leading a coalition government in the last several elections under Proportional Representation. Instead it requires Labour to b…

2015 was a disaster we never recovered from. Millions of voters voted for real change, and got ignored. But then the party who DID actually win the election pandered to those voters to try and win them over. We ended up with Brexit and a whole host of other related problems with populism, etc.

I blogged about it here at the time, in case anyone's interested: https://tinyurl.com/39r8r3rr

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#543
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We traded one wrinkly liar the media held accountable for another wrinkly liar the media views as their grandpa.

Bothsides posting should have stopped around 2005. There's nothing impressive about telling people how above it all you are.

I'm not an ideologue so I don't derive my identity from my politics, and therefore don't view political opinions as "impressing" anybody.

I don't like the GOP for many reasons (maga) and I think the current iteration of Democrats are horrifically inept with economics to a degree where they are a net harm for the people they strive to help. Belief in policies such as rent control is as anti-science as creationism.

Most Americans have fallen into the trap of lesser of two evils to a point where they don't hold their chosen side accountable at all and the result is predictable. Incredibly dysfunctional policy.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming overturning abortion laws was done on the pretext of protecting foetuses (who are a minority)?

Roe overturned abortion laws ostensibly to protect the minority of women who choose to have an abortion. In doing so, the justices replaced the moral philosophy of the public with their own moral philosophy.

Well if you really believe that then I assume you think they did the right thing by overturning Roe, so it seems like (in your eyes) it has a self-correcting mechanism in place. Except I gather that it's now the case that right-to-a-legal-abortion does actually have quite firm majority support from the polls that have been done? At any rate, I don't see either case as an example of the Supreme Court protecting minority factions against tyranny of the majority.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that in many Western systems the people who gain power aren't democratically elected. In a real democracy the big challenge should be how to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. However most of us aren't even getting that far because the people who gain power often don't even have the support or even acceptance of the majority.

> In a real democracy the big challenge should be how to protect minorities from the tyranny of the majority. Protection of minorities has nothing to do with democracy, and is often anti-Democratic. In the west, minorities are increasingly being invoked by elites as pretexts for strengthening anti-Democratic institutions and overruling majorities.

Protection of minorities has nothing to do with democracy, and is often anti-Democratic.

Exactly. And that means protecting minorities from abuse - particularly abuse caused by short-term or ill-informed policy making by politicians - is the big challenge facing any political system based on representative democracy. But before you can get that far you first need to have your representatives democratically elected in the first place and most of us don't right now.

In the west, minorities are increasingly being invoked by elites as pretexts for strengthening anti-Democratic institutions and overruling majorities.

Careful. Relatively few policies implemented by Western governments actually have a clear, verifiable majority of the public in support of them. For that you essentially need either a referendum or a clear result electing representatives on an explicit platform of implementing that policy and where that policy is known to be the deciding factor in voters' choice of representative.

For everything else in a representative democracy we elect our representatives usually based on some very narrow set of priorities and yet those representatives are entrusted with deciding on any government policy that requires a decision throughout their term of office. There is a very long tail of minor issues that can still profoundly affect the lives of many people yet where the representatives making the decisions certainly were not elected based on their position on those particular issues. Even on major issues situations will inevitably change during the term of office of elected representatives and their response to any emergency was almost certainly not something voters had an opportunity to consider before making their choice at the last election.

Representative democracy has obvious practical advantages over requiring direct democracy for every little decision any government ever makes but it also implies limitations on the democratic mandate granted to representatives and by extension on the legitimacy of any actions those representatives take on behalf of their electorate. Strong checks and balances are essential to keep representative democracy democratic. One common safeguard is to have constitutional rules about the most important policies where the powers of any current representatives to act in those areas are limited without going back to their electorate for a specific decision to change the foundational rules. Another is having a power of recall so that if the voters who elected a representative are unhappy with their actions then they can require a fresh election that might choose a different representative instead. Crucially both of those safeguards ultimately depend on an explicit decision by the entire electorate, which can and should be more powerful in a democracy than any decision by elected representatives.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#546

As an outsider, but generally appreciative of British culture's influence on me, I was (and continue to be) flabbergasted with Britain's inward outlook. For the vast majority of British history, Brits were only wealthy when they traded outside. The trade took various forms such as East India company, trading outposts, industrial trade outside the island, colonization, financial capitalization etc. Britain ruled the s…

UK issued one million Visas last year: https://workpermit.com/news/uk-visas-issued-one-million-peop... New Visas are being introduced for skilled/semi skilled: https://aristonesolicitors.co.uk/news/new-uk-visas-set-to-la... UK is NOT trying to emulate North Korea. This is a bad faith statement. Those countries (USA, China, Singapore) you mentioned are not in the EU Common Travel Area either. On trade, the UK is negot…

The US has an equivalent to the travel area, Californians can go to New York without a visa

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#547

I feel like the article lays it out pretty well? It’s a government who’s been in power too long, whose talent base was massively thinned by a Brexit Purity witch hunt and the impossibility of delivering the Brexit fairy-tale, and who weren’t simply ejected at the last election because of Corbyn’s overwhelming unpopularity.

Democracies elsewhere can learn a thing or two from recent election rounds in the US, the UK, and elsewhere. Basically, we've seen a surge in populism and irrational sentiment dominating politics and being translated into actual policy with disastrous results. The lesson there is that you can win an election and then loose an empire. I don't think it's a British problem either. We've had populists dominating politics…

"Brexit sounded great to people with no clue about how economies work. Now they are dealing with inflation"

As is pointed out in every single one of these threads, inflation in the UK is no different to inflation in the rest of Europe. Like elsewhere, it's created by money printing to pay for lockdowns and other COVID measures, along with embargoes against Russia.

It's really quite impressive how often this claim about inflation and Brexit comes up on HN, despite it being so easily disproven by looking at the numbers. It seems to happen on literally every single thread about the UK. The idea that Remainer-ism is a bastion of economic logic and common sense doesn't fit with the frequency with which bad economic claims in support of EU membership are made.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was an interesting reading a while ago, trying to find. It basically boiled down to "The Canadian dream is move to America". Canada is a middle-class, "middle-all", in fact, country with, in my opinion little excitement. But then again, that's just my personal opinion. Factually, yeah, the US offers more purchase power, better salaries and better mobility.

From a quick search would it be https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31378415 ?

yeah, exactly.

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#549
post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> two countries offer entirely different lives Curious about this. Could you please elaborate? Like, the differences in lives of a software developer in, say Toronto and San Francisco (other than salary)? Just curious.

There was an interesting reading a while ago, trying to find. It basically boiled down to "The Canadian dream is move to America". Canada is a middle-class, "middle-all", in fact, country with, in my opinion little excitement. But then again, that's just my personal opinion. Factually, yeah, the US offers more purchase power, better salaries and better mobility.

My point is: if you have to leave the US due to immigration, frankly I'd rather go to Britain than Canada. At least I get an exciting change in lifestyle. Canada is too close to America in what it tries to do but fails. UK is f* up, but at least it's Europe

Re: The strange case of Britain’s demise

#550
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not pretending/perceiving that the memetic/reductive/imprecise/misinformative/ incorrect way we describe them is accurate would be a good start. Human communication in 2022 is a train wreck, and there are plentiful artifacts of that in this very thread, in this much more intelligent than average community .

It seems to me that Human communication declines the more it becomes divorced from the threat of physical violence. The peak decline will be when the possibility of consequences (social, physical, legal, financial…) for communicating anything reaches absolute zero. Human communication is a great tool but must be kept in check, the goal of communication is to produce useful outcomes, not merely deliver messages and op…

Your comment seems especially prescient if read in the context of the insane asylum going on in the "Twitter suspends pg's account" thread - what a time to be alive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34044047

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