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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#541

Post by doliveira »

nly wrote: post #323
mberning wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrible take. 10k is a pittance. Small business owners, farmers, people buying and selling vehicles, etc. It’s not a large amount of money. If you go down to the apple store and buy a couple well specced computers the bill is going to be over 10k.

Americans aren't used banking systems that work.

Honestly, I feel like so much of the crypto space is due to that. Even in Brazil we have a pretty simple inter-bank transfer system used by virtually everybody. You just have to know an email or a phone.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#542

Post by ithkuil »

matkoniecz wrote: post #498
moritonal wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hol up, the buyer wanted cash for buying a flat? And no-one saw anything fishy in that? Really sounds like your family member accidentally helped launder money.

Entire transaction took place in bank - and cash was immediately deposited into bank and never even left bank building. Not entirely sure why it would be a problem or enable anything? (and obviously, seller wanted cash) (and it is possible that I misunderstood something) And I would do the same - just to avoid worrying that maybe transfer is not going to arrive or get reverted or something (that is 100% hypothetical,…

Last time I had to do something like this I used a "certified check", which in the EU country I live is a mechanism where a bank effectively prints non-anonymous money that can be exchanged physically.

It would have worked just as well in you example transaction where both parties were in a bank. In my example it worked by exchanging this piece of paper while at the notary.

(This is my understanding on how most of the house sales work in Italy)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#543

Post by p1esk »

yardstick wrote: post #519
p1esk wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if no one is affected today it does not mean many won’t be affected tomorrow. What if your government decides to take all your money from you for no good reason?

Let’s assume that there was no cash limit, a malicious government could still achieve the same result by changing the currency or even just issuing new notes and instructing banks not to accept old notes. I guess you would have an underground economy for a while by those that are willing to be old-cash only, but good luck paying tax and other items that require the new currency/notes.

It’s much harder for a government to change currency than to freeze your bank account.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#544

Post by ars »

jacquesm wrote: post #478
ars wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are buying a used car from a private party, what else is there except cash?

Instant bank transfer using your phone or laptop, smartcard + token.

Aren't those reversible? I would never agree to such a transaction with the reversible method of payment.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#545

Post by Aerroon »

steelframe wrote: post #494
isodev wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uppercase tells me you have strong feelings about this and maybe I’m missing something obvious. Would you explain why my freedom will be diminished by this? I can still pay and buy whatever I want. It just happens faster and more secure.

> maybe I’m missing something obvious A common tactic of centralized control is to "boil the frog," so to speak. Start with a control that seems to most people to be lax enough to be "not that big a deal," and then later -- maybe years -- tighten the control once enough people are acclimated to the existence of the control in the first place. If the government were to come along and say, "If you are female and are pu…

You don't even have to move the threshold. Inflation will eventually take care of it. At the current rate of inflation in some EU countries it would only take 5-6 years for the value of money to be $(X/2).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#546

Post by rootusrootus »

isodev wrote: post #395
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHO CARES if it "only has a few instances". I will never understand where people will say that having our right LITERALLY REMOVED somehow isn't eroding our freedom. It simply is, you are objectively less free now.

The uppercase tells me you have strong feelings about this and maybe I’m missing something obvious. Would you explain why my freedom will be diminished by this? I can still pay and buy whatever I want. It just happens faster and more secure.

> I can still pay and buy whatever I want.

That's a big claim. Can you put a guarantee on it? Seems like when your only option is to use a tightly regulated system that has opinions on how much you can spend, every time you do you are granted permission. Some day they may say no. What is your recourse when they do?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#547

Post by thorncorona »

crazygringo wrote: post #356
perlgeek wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't affect anyone. No one in Europe uses cash for anything more expensive than maybe 200 euros. Sold a used car just last year, got 2700€ in cash for it. Much easier than doing a bank transfer (which takes 1 day to arrive, if you're unlucky, and can be rolled back), or a paypal transfer (which can be undone) or anything else between to individuals. For b2c or b2b I agree, nobody pays that much in cash, but f…

I sure wouldn't want to risk discovering I'd been paid in high-quality counterfeit notes. Accepting 2700€ cash feels insane to me. In Europe do you not have cashier's checks? That's what we use in the US for something like a used car, since most people don't want to carry around a car's worth of cash, even for a short period of time. You go to the bank, and get a check drawn on the bank for the amount. The person rec…

I would not take the risk selling expensive items with digital transactions for the counterparty to file a fictitious Paypal dispute or credit card chargeback.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#548

Post by dijit »

jonathantf2 wrote: post #540
dijit wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Largely depends on which banks are talking between each other. For many banks and large transfers you need to wait an hour or so for it to go through. You notice it most when buying a house and you sit awkwardly in a room with the seller waiting for the money to be transferred so you can leave with the keys.

What awful bank have you got where it takes 1h to do a Faster Payment?

Like I said it depends on the banks.

Santander to HSBC is a pretty slow one for some reason.

I’ve had some slow transfers from HSBC to Barclays too.

In Sweden it took about an hour for Handelsbanken to Nordea, so I’m comfortable saying that there’s some kind of threshold that’s universally accepted for large bank transfers during working hours.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#549

Post by ceejayoz »

rootusrootus wrote: post #508
crummy wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it dangerous to give out your bank account number in the US, people can withdraw from it if they know it or something?

You'd also need the routing number for the bank as well as the name on the account, at a minimum. And what you're thinking of is ACH, which goes between institutions, not between individuals.

The routing and account numbers are on all paper checks you write. You can use them to set up ACH transfers to/from that account, with pretty minimal checks.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#550

Post by 1337biz »

sheepdestroyer wrote: post #531
1337biz wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about speed. If someone offers 10k in cash and someone talk about wire transfer blahblah, sellers will always prefer the buyer just paying in cash.

We are talking 10s bank transfers here in EU, how much faster do you want it? I would not feel at ease walking around with 10k€ In fact I would find it extremely suspicious if someone told me it's their preferred method to get paid. I would totally expect a mugging.

If they pay by transfer they can charge back, the bank might cancel for some credit reasons, might flag it as they want to verify first why it was made, and so on. Cash is problem free if you live in a low crime area.

I do myself all higher priced purchases in cash, even go to the bank and withdraw the money to go to the shop next door. For the same reason I use a VPN. My provider and my bank have no right know what I do or not do.

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