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John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

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Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#541

Post by darawk »

godelski wrote: post #472
darawk wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what would be the observable, empirical consequences of the kind of causal understanding and generalization of inference you're describing?

The common current example? A text prompt of "A horse riding an astronaut" without prompt engineering. Though I don't think the successful production of this image will demonstrate intelligence/causal understanding either (but it is a good counter example). Causal understanding is going to be a bit difficult to prove tbh.

> The common current example? A text prompt of "A horse riding an astronaut" without prompt engineering. Though I don't think the successful production of this image will demonstrate intelligence/causal understanding either (but it is a good counter example).

I'm not sure why you think this falsifies intelligence. There are plenty of puzzles and illusions that trick humans. The mere presence of conceptual error is no disproof of intelligence, any more than the fact that most humans get the Monty Hall problem wrong is.

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#542

Post by sph »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #289
wcerfgba wrote: post #239

Does anyone else subscribe to the idea that AGI is impossible/unlikely without 'embodied cognition', i.e. we cannot create a human-like 'intelligence' unless it has a similar embodiment to us, able to move around a physical environment with it's own limbs, sense of touch, sight, etc. ? Any arguments against the necessity of this? I feel like any AGI developed in silico without freedom of movement will be fundamentall…

>Does anyone else subscribe to the idea that AGI is impossible/unlikely without 'embodied cognition', i.e. we cannot create a human-like 'intelligence' Seems like you are confusing Consciousness with Intelligence? It's completely plausible that we will create a system with Intelligence that far outstrips ours while being completely un-Conscious. >I feel like any AGI developed in silico without freedom of movement wil…

> It's completely plausible that we will create a system with Intelligence that far outstrips ours while being completely un-Conscious.

Is it? Is there proof that consciousness is not a requirement to close-to-human level intelligence?

Given that we do not even know how consciousness works in our brains, I don't think we have the answer yet. I'm not sure it's plausible to make such an assumption.

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#543

Post by godelski »

aquaduck wrote: post #528
godelski wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common current example? A text prompt of "A horse riding an astronaut" without prompt engineering. Though I don't think the successful production of this image will demonstrate intelligence/causal understanding either (but it is a good counter example). Causal understanding is going to be a bit difficult to prove tbh.

Counter-argument: DALL-E is smart enough to understand that an astronaut riding a horse makes more sense than a horse riding an astronaut, and therefore assumes that you meant "a horse-riding astronaut" unless you go out of your way to specify that you definitely do, in fact, want to see a horse riding an astronaut.

Because intelligence is more than frequentism. Being able to predict that a dice lands on a given side with probability 1/6 is not a demonstration of intelligence. It feels a bit naive to even suggest this and I suspect that you aren't a ML researcher (and if I'm right, maybe don't have as much arrogance because you don't have as much domain knowledge).

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#544

Post by sph »

throwaway11101 wrote: post #271
dunefox wrote: post #48

I admire and respect John Carmack. For me he's one of the greats, along with people like Peter Norvig, for example.

[flagged]

Completely unhinged rant, I'm surprised you didn't even mention US politics and climate change for good measure.

Take a break and return to posting with your main account, and hopefully you will spare us from tirades like this.

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#545

Post by sph »

beeboop wrote: post #489
yazzku wrote: post #33

"I could write a $20M check myself" Every day, all day. Same boat here. I went to the bank to ask for a mortgage. They asked for my financials. "Oh, well, knowing that other people's money is on the line engenders a greater sense of discipline and determination."

Some people work better as employees and some people work better as entrepreneurs. Carmack has been both and it's clear he prefers being an employee. If this is snark, I can't tell, but why make fun of him for knowing how he works best?

They aren't making fun of Carmack. Just noting that money lending works differently past a certain threshold.

Carmack can get investments for their ideas to motivate them, OP cannot get investments for their ideas to motivate them. What is the difference?

Hint: it's not because one is Carmack himself.

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#548

Post by godelski »

darawk wrote: post #541
godelski wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common current example? A text prompt of "A horse riding an astronaut" without prompt engineering. Though I don't think the successful production of this image will demonstrate intelligence/causal understanding either (but it is a good counter example). Causal understanding is going to be a bit difficult to prove tbh.

> The common current example? A text prompt of "A horse riding an astronaut" without prompt engineering. Though I don't think the successful production of this image will demonstrate intelligence/causal understanding either (but it is a good counter example). I'm not sure why you think this falsifies intelligence. There are plenty of puzzles and illusions that trick humans. The mere presence of conceptual error is no…

Your argument is that there are adversarial cases? Sure... But that's not what I'm even arguing here. There's more nuance to the problem here that you lack an understanding of. I do suggest diving deep into the research to understand this rather than arrogantly make comments like this. If you have questions, that's a different thing. But this is inappropriate and demonstrates a lack of intimate understanding of the field.

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#549

Post by archagon »

intelVISA wrote: post #261
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised by how bullish he is about this. At least a few years ago the experts in the field didn't see AGI anywhere near us for at least a few decades, and all of the bulls were physicists, philosophers or Deepak-Chopra-for-the-TED-crowd bullshit artists who have never written a line of code in their lives, mostly milking that conference and podcast dollar, preaching Skynet-flavored apocalypse or rapture. To s…

if Carmack's in I'm in. Has he ever been drastically wrong?

Newton worked on alchemy for much of his life.

Re: John Carmack's new AGI company, Keen Technologies, has raised a $20M round

#550

Post by archagon »

dinosaurdynasty wrote: post #481
MichaelCollins wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're presuming the AGI is ever made aware that it's an AGI, that the nature of the simulated environment the AGI exists in ever becomes apparent to the AGI. Suppose: You are an AGI. The world you think you know is fully simulated. The researchers who created you interact with you using avatars that appear to you as normal people similar to yourself. You aren't faster/smarter than those researchers because they cont…

If you play chess with the best grandmaster in the world can you predict how they win? Also they'd probably figure it out, because they'd likely be trained with lots and lots of texts (like GPT-3, etc) and some of that text is going to be AI science fiction stories, AI alignment papers, AI papers, philosophical treatises about Chinese rooms, physics papers, maybe this Hacker News comment section, etc > You aren't fas…

How do you know you’re not an AGI?
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