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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#541

Post by ekianjo »

glogla wrote: post #426
buscoquadnary wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

> It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. This is completely normal for laws. Your kitchen at home doesn't have to follow the same rules as restaurant kitchen, for example. You as a driver of your personal car don't have to go through the same process and registration as truck drivers do. Small stalls selli…

Its because your kitchen at home is not a business.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#542

Post by rch »

tirpen wrote: post #353
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

Is being a gatekeeper a function of overall size, or market share in a given sector?

I may have missed the definition in the article, but my cynical take is that it seems geared towards getting companies that enjoyed dominance in the 90s back into the game now.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#543

Post by toyg »

GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #393
ls15 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sony's market capitalization exceeds €75bn (the threshold over which the regulation applies).

Is there something to stop worthless shell companies from shielding the parent company's size

There is the law and there is the spirit of the law. Judges (and European regulators alike) don't like being taken for fools.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#544

Post by ekianjo »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #509
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

I always see comments like this and they're so confusing. They just kind of assume that nobody has thought about these questions. Did you even check if they were addressed? If not, why are you asserting that these questioned are opened? For one, it's not about devices, it's about digital market platforms. That's why it's called the digital markets act. Let's see what we get when we google this? Here's one: https://ww…

All these numbers and criteria seem to be completely cherry picked to fit specific companies. So bad.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#545

Post by whywhywhywhy »

parasense wrote: post #183
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Fines are up to 10% of global revenue for the first offense, and 20% for repeat offenses. For Alphabet (Google) the revenue distribution from 2015 to 2021 was approximately 33% for all of Europe, Middle-east, and Africa. It's unclear to me the actual European numbers since they are combined EMEA. For Apple in 2021 the revenue was approximately 23% for Europe (no middle-east or Africa). For Facebook in 2021 the reve…

What would the money even be used for? Why does the government have to profit from enforcing this.

I’d be fine if we take the money and burn it but it’s not gonna be that is it it’s gonna be we take the money and funnel it into organizations that politicians children happen to be on the boards of.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#546

Post by [deleted] »

runako wrote: post #252
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> * Make core messaging functionality interoperable. They lay out concrete examples like file transfer It's entirely possible that to enable compliance with this will require explicit compromises to the security of iMessage, for example by requiring key exchange with startup messaging providers. The other rules seem to prohibit Apple from describing the risks involved in such a compromise. > * Use existing hardware a…

[deleted]

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#547

Post by yxhuvud »

ls15 wrote: post #8
chaoz_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge. What if Apple claims implementing required feature X will take more than 6 months? I could see it happening given that planning has already happened and new func will need to be smoothly introduced into UX etc.

> What if Apple claims implementing required feature X will take more than 6 months? Then that will increase the implementation cost by at least (edit: up to ) 10% of their global revenue.

It is very likely that it is much lower than that in the beginning of noncompliance, as long as they show that they are trying.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#548

Post by pb7 »

notanormalnerd wrote: post #377
plandis wrote: post #251

One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance. Europe could even subsidize it. But instead, it’s more engineering by bureaucrats. Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

Because it is not "one market". There is free movement of good, services, money and people. But it is still 28 similar markets with different cultures, different languages, different bureaucracies and sometimes different currency. It is 400 million people but comparing the EU to the US is wrong on so many levels. Also calling the US an "open" market is like saying China is a "free" democracy. "One would think that if…

No post body was provided.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#549

Post by cteiosanu »

rch wrote: post #542
tirpen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

Is being a gatekeeper a function of overall size, or market share in a given sector? I may have missed the definition in the article, but my cynical take is that it seems geared towards getting companies that enjoyed dominance in the 90s back into the game now.

Check the infographic[1]. Gatekeepers are digital platforms :

• with over 45 mil active users • more than €7.5 billion turnover for the past 3 years

[1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/digital-mark...

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#550

Post by n8cpdx »

fariszr wrote: post #415
a4a4a4a4 wrote: post #194

I'm not sure how I feel about this. My gut instinct is that opening these things can lead to a ton of malware and fake app stores, which will lead to a not-insignificant number of people being victimized. I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round.

> I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round Because its almost impossible to compete? These companies have so many resources, its impossible for any local competitor to compete. Amazon can just crash the prices till the competition dies, Google can just not al…

The parent comment was being unfair. There is one market where Europeans dominate both in sheer volume and in innovation: excuses.

Excusing business, excusing governments; an international pastime of the Europeans, apparently.

Europeans did in fact exist before all of the listed examples came into being, and so could have outcompeted any of them even if they are now dominant. But I still think Europeans _could_ compete, even if culturally they are not prepared to be competitive. Amazon is only a fraction of retail sales and has huge weaknesses; Europeans who know their markets better could compete if they wanted to (especially with the huge amount of protectionism national governments are willing to engage in). LINE exists in Japan, presumably a smaller market than Europe that has managed to produce a viable WhatsApp competitor. Facebook was unstoppable until TikTok ate their lunch.

Again, I’m astounded by the European affinity for excusing uncompetitive businesses.

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