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The Coming Food Catastrophe

economist.com

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Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#541

Post by happymellon »

Guthur wrote: post #485
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the people that got "us" into this mess are the ones who initiated a genocidal war of territorial conquest in modern times (after repeatedly lying that they would) not coincidentally, they are also the only ones who can get "us" out of it, by withdrawing – the Ukrainian people have seen the rape, torture, and executions that result from allowing genocidal russian troops to control a single square foot of Ukrainian la…

Please, stop this moral high ground rhetorical hypocrisy of the highest order. The US has had no qualms about invading countries or applying sanctions that harm innocent people. There are no good guys. People will all do terrible things for "the greater good", there is no worldly greater good from these soulless bureaucratic monoliths of state hood. They will set targets and strive for them irrespective of the human…

This is literally the stupidest thing I have heard all day. Let me sum up this idiotic comment.

1. Millions protested against all the invasions by various countries.

2. Because they protested, but were ignored they can't be against this one also?

No one is falling for your whataboutism. It is terrible when counties invade others regardless of who is doing the invasion.

Stop being such a terrible sock-puppet.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#542

Post by silversmith »

haerra wrote: post #534
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the people that got "us" into this mess are the ones who initiated a genocidal war of territorial conquest in modern times (after repeatedly lying that they would) not coincidentally, they are also the only ones who can get "us" out of it, by withdrawing – the Ukrainian people have seen the rape, torture, and executions that result from allowing genocidal russian troops to control a single square foot of Ukrainian la…

As a side note, I find the language you are using strange. I do not know if it's my perspective of the world being different than yours, but I'll try to explain. In my perspective, genocide is a very, very strong word. Hitler killed 6 million Jews, as he literally wanted them exterminated. Now, crime is a crime, none should be defended nor downsized. But the primary goal behind that genocide was extermination. Do you…

Not who you replied to, but yes, I am claiming that Russia is trying to exterminate Ukrainians.

From the (admittedly, rambling) speeches of their top command about how Ukraine is not a real country and intentional shelling of civilian structures, to mass murder of civilians being uncovered after russian forces are pushed back and abduction of children, there is no way you can call the goal of russian forces anything but extermination of a nation.

Of course, the official body count is not yet past 6 million, and UN paperwork calling it genocide is not yet signed. So yeah, you're right, it's not genocide, just murder on industrial scale.

For the sake of disclosure, I'm from Latvia, a country that shook off the russian yoke in 90s, and my own mother has chilling memories of red army acting the same animalistic way as what we hear from Ukraine today. "Bias" or "experience" - choose your own label.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#544

Post by felurx »

lenkite wrote: post #450
pvarangot wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soooooooo "Roughage Products" which is fiber, that humans also need to eat BTW, is usually something like 25% of pelleted food. The main ingredient in pelleted food is usually digestible by humans and between 6% to 15% protein, it's like 25% to 30% depending on the pelleted food. Pound by pound going by the estimates that "eat cow advocates" use you need 12 pounds of food per pound of beef produced, if half of that i…

"main ingredient in pelleted food is usually digestible by humans" You would truly need to be starving from famine or an "Instagram Go-Green Promoter" to eat this.

I don't think it's about eating the pellets, but about using the ingredients to make food for people instead of pellets.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#545

Post by Guthur »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #535
Guthur wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have no interest in explaining to me how EU countries (Germany etc) paying Russia for energy helps Ukraine? I'm quite serious, I don't know how paying Russia helps Ukraine, or are they not paying for energy? maybe I am ill informed. And please don't come back with misdirection, either answer the question or lets leave it like that because it's a waste of both our time.

Not the person you were originally responding to, but I would point out that originally the statement was about if everyone is united in opposition, why are we still buying fossil fuel from Russia. This is not the same question as how it helps Ukraine, so I would be careful throwing around the word “misdirection”.

The original responder asked twice in a row whether or not i wanted an answer when there was obviously nothing rhetorical about my questions and so that is the misdirection.

And we are now how deep in this thread without an answer to the simple question; how can a lack of EU energy embargo stand in solidarity with the sanctions and Ukraine. Please explain?

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#546

Post by thematrixturtle »

Guthur wrote: post #493
thematrixturtle wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia's official forecasts are for inflation north of 20%, GDP down 8% in 2022, and factories are offering free plots of land so people can grow their own potatoes. No shortage of fuel though, since they're having a hard time exporting it now. Although all industry in Russia is heavily dependent on spare parts from the West, meaning things will start breaking down quite soon.

Quite sure the whole world is at similar inflation levels, pretty sure it's about 30% considering the drop in profits from Western retailers, same revenue, massive drop in profits, the retailers took the inflationary hit but it will be passed on eventually. Just look at your fuel prices (supply issues there as well as monetary inflation). Will this affect russia, of course, but if their level of inflation is rampant…

Nope, most Western countries have inflation in the 8% range, although as always you can quibble about what's being measured etc.

Also, Russia has already turned off the gas taps to Poland, Bulgaria and by the end of this week most likely to Finland. However, European countries can substitute (with varying degrees of pain), while it's physically impossible for Russia to export that gas elsewhere, meaning any cuts to exports hit them hard in the pocketbook.

At the end of the day, it's pretty much the world vs Russia right now, and the world will absorb the economic blows better than Russia can.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#547

Post by andersha »

exploding_water wrote: post #363
bryanlarsen wrote: post #144

The article actually has four solutions at the bottom. Compared to the severity of the problem, all four solutions are surprisingly simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple and straightforward. 1. Stop using so much corn to make ethanol. 2. Stop using so much seed oil to make biodiesel. 3. Stop feeding so much food to livestock. Bonus: reducing the livestock population provides short term calories! 4. Break the Black…

The third solution doesn’t make much sense since livestock consumption is mostly made up of inedible foods that we can’t eat like husks, stems, leaves, etc. of plants. Livestock is effective for up-cycling foods we can’t digest and turning it into foods that we can such as meat and dairy. Also there is a lot of food waste in the US. Good food that is suitable for livestock…

Please share a reference, I am not sure I understand what you mean.

The big majority of agriculture land is spend on producing fodder not husks, stems and so on. I mean an animal need calories too, yes a ruminant can digest cellulose, but the majority is soy, corn and wheat.

I look forward to hear more. Thanks.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#548

Post by codebje »

elvis10ten wrote: post #540
codebje wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a mere vegetarian but I justify it by aiming for generally better, not perfect. (Also I adopted my cat about a decade before I became a vegetarian, it doesn't seem morally superior to destroy her because I had a change of heart.)

I see. I eat meat and I know about the issues (health wise and environmentally). I’m trending towards less, largely for health reasons. My ideal world (in my head) is that human beings don’t interfere with animals at all (to eat, as pets, to showcase). We should interfere in only cases where it’s critical (like a natural disaster treating animals). Is there a word for this viewpoint?

If there is a word for it I don't know it, sorry.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#549

Post by fragmede »

lazide wrote: post #278
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh certainly it is important to have some kind of cut-off to prevent back-feeding the power lines, but I thought that would just be part of the system design.

It is! The easiest design is to require existing grid stable power and supplement it. :) Anything else is difficult to do reliably, and would generally require some kind of smart monitoring system, electrically actuated mains rated switch (not easy, cheap or durable it turns out), additional sensors, etc. The design we're talking about just doesn't output power unless there is an existing sine wave to follow. Pretty…

I’m typing this from a computer I’m holding in my hand that’s more powerful than the ones used to put men on the moon. A box with three connections - grid, solar, and house (four if you have a battery) with sensors and disconnects and the smarts to not backfeed and electrocute linemen just doesn’t seem impossibly complex. Especially when we’re talking about home solar installs, which cost several thousand dollars to begin with. There’s got to be some other force at play here preventing this device, which is the most obvious way of implementing a supplementary power system connection, from being widespread.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#550

Post by silversmith »

karaterobot wrote: post #417
Guthur wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a major fuel shortage so you are just robbing peter to pay Paul. Also fertiliser will be the next problem, we won't be able to grow enough to cover the loss of Russian and Ukraine exports next year. And meat as a source of protein will become a luxury for all those in power. The western government's had to know this would happen otherwise they are grossly incompetent at their job. If the west had had the mea…

> Russia have played this very very well as the west followed their own play book to the letter and the russians had counters planned for years, hording gold, setting up non USD financial systems. First round of The Game goes to Russia imo. I find this very hard to believe. Things are much worse in Russia and for Russia than they are in Europe or the United States right now, with the future looking bleak.

While the quoted poster appears to be getting their news straight from Kremlin, there is something to consider: the average russian is VERY experienced in taking abuse. We're talking about a country where around fifth of the population does not have access to indoor plumbing. Only couple of the largest cities there have living standards comparable to what average HN poster would consider livable.

This whole thing is going to cause a financial recession. More so in some regions than others. But as a citizen of a very small country bordering russia - that's okay. As long as it breaks the back of their military, and sets back their military ambitions for a good long while, there's a long list of luxuries I can live without. I want my kids to worry about global warming, not global warming and when's the next time the neighbours re-discover their imperial ambitions.

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