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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#541

Post by starik36 »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #360
walkhour wrote: post #334

Most comments here are attacking the decision, or just quoting the decision, and following it up by a "wtf". Just being shocked is not an argument. Jews are or have been persecuted in all middle eastern countries. What would happen if they were a minority in a democratic state in the Middle East? Why would it be different than in the other democracies in the Middle East? Laws like these lower the probability of Jews…

Advocates for Israel like to use other middle eastern states to excuse all sorts of behavior. The problem is that they try to have their cake and eat it to with these comparisons. “Israel is the only democratic state in the Middle East!” -but the systematically control the non Jewish population. Israel wants to display itself as the image of a society that has the same values as western states, while practicing the s…

The reality of the situation is that 90% of Palestinians do not encounter any Jews or Israelis at all in their daily life. Gazans live under Hamas. And Arabs in West Bank mostly live under Palestinian authority in areas negotiated in Oslo in the 90s.

Really the only place they touch is Jerusalem.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#542

Post by sempron64 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #448
sempron64 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is my point. The Israeli right wing views the Palestinian state as an extension of Jordan and other Arab states surrounding Israel, and while they are not currently shooting at each other, they are most definitely not at peace with them.

After Black September (Palestinian-Jordan war in 1970) and the bombings in Amman, the Palestinian state is definitely not an extension of Jordan. Even if there is a number of Palestinians living in Jordan, they are not Jordanians. That makes that view quite wrong.

I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying that this law needs to be viewed in the lens of national conflict rather than racism. The Israeli right wing does in fact consider the Palestinians in the West Bank Jordanian or generally “Arab” even though Jordan and the Palestinians themselves may not.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#543

Post by barrikad »

fredophile wrote: post #366
pavelrub wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restriction applies to everybody, not just Israeli Arabs. However it is true that Israeli Arabs are the ones most affected by it.

Laws that make it illegal to sleep under bridges apply to everybody, not just the homeless. Does that mean a law against sleeping under bridges is not targeting the homeless?

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread."

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#544

Post by shmatt »

nidhalbt wrote: post #28

We see more and more similar laws being passed in recent years, laws that are blatantly discriminatory. This may raise the indignation of many people, but in my opinion, Israel is shooting itself in the foot by passing these laws, because it reinforces the argument that it is an apartheid regime. Israel is slowly losing its support in the free democratic world where people believe in the inalienable universal rights…

Israel always had laws favoring jews over non-jews. It would seem shocking but its been like that since day 1.

Even now with white blue-eyed christian Ukrainians flooding Israel, they are being left in the airport for days, and interrogated to see who had a Jewish great grandfather and who did not. If you did - thats a free ticket in. If not? Wait a few more days, we might take you in if you put up collateral cash (around $3,000 per refugee). No money? you're put on a plane back to Poland. Only because your great grandfather was not Jewish

Its easy to twist this state of mind as racist towards 1 population. But there are rules that are just as hard on any non-jew. If you've ever met a Jewish Israeli who married a non-jew, they will tell you how complicated even visiting their parents on vacation with kids has become

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#545

Post by pthread_t »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #456
belter wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if a non observant Jew wants to operate a shop on the Shabbat...then?

Then their shop isn't certified as kosher and can't make food for religious customers, but otherwise, it works fine. I've gone to convenience stores, cafes, restaurants, movie theaters, etc dozens of times on Shabbat, in Israel.

Were you able to take the trains? Buses?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#546

Post by 1337shadow »

zarzavat wrote: post #225
1337shadow wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! considering this I'm now wondering: I fill Nigeria with Norvegians, is it still Nigeria or an extension of Norway? I believe Nigerians have the right to have their country that doesn't look like an extension of another.

The verb “Fill” is so dehumanizing. This law is about banning Arab Israelis from bringing their spouse to live with them in Israel and to have a family life together. In fact Nigeria recognizes the right of Nigerians to bring their spouse to live with them in Nigeria and even offers Nigerian citizenship. Nigeria is actually more advanced than many western countries in this respect.

Interesting, but not answering the question.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#547

Post by [deleted] »

freebee87 wrote: post #446
cs702 wrote: post #190

Here's an interesting exercise: 1. Substitute "Israel's Knesset" for ANY other legislative body anywhere. 2. Substitute "Palestinian" for ANY other nationality, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, or other adjective describing a group to which YOU belong. 3. See if you like how it feels: "[Legislative body] passes law barring spouses who are [like you] from becoming citizens."

This is the law in China (my spouse is Chinese and we looked into this)

[deleted]

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#548

Post by m0llusk »

jmyeet wrote: post #522

Israel is an apartheid state, a claim now explicitly made by Amnesty International [1]. Pick any number of highlights: - Denying citizenship to Palestinians (and other Muslims); - The Palestinian residence card system. Families that cannot be reunited because of it; - Population quotas in Jerusalem. Palestinians who have it and leave to, say, go to college will be deemed to have abandoned their residency to maintain…

> Where is the outrage over, say, Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights? ... how is the Golan Heights different?

There is broad based support for the idea that the Golan is part of Syria as repeatedly asserted by the UN. The problem is that there have been frequent attacks against Israel from the Golan. As long as Israel can believably make the argument that they need to hold that territory to prevent attacks then they will be able to occupy it and make use of the considerable resources there, especially the water. This is very unlike the situation in the Ukraine where the only attacks have been faked by Russia.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#549

Post by sempron64 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #448
sempron64 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this is my point. The Israeli right wing views the Palestinian state as an extension of Jordan and other Arab states surrounding Israel, and while they are not currently shooting at each other, they are most definitely not at peace with them.

After Black September (Palestinian-Jordan war in 1970) and the bombings in Amman, the Palestinian state is definitely not an extension of Jordan. Even if there is a number of Palestinians living in Jordan, they are not Jordanians. That makes that view quite wrong.

Also, it’s important to note that I’m comparing the situation in Ukraine to that region in the late 60s, the height of Pan Arabism and the United Arab Republic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Republic

The Israeli right still largely views the context in this lens, as does the Muslim Brotherhood, which backs both a significant amount of terror groups in and around Israel, and Israeli Arab political parties https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#550

Post by pthread_t »

wildrhythms wrote: post #468
nidhalbt wrote: post #28

We see more and more similar laws being passed in recent years, laws that are blatantly discriminatory. This may raise the indignation of many people, but in my opinion, Israel is shooting itself in the foot by passing these laws, because it reinforces the argument that it is an apartheid regime. Israel is slowly losing its support in the free democratic world where people believe in the inalienable universal rights…

'Israel is slowly losing its support' is a bit of a retelling... even in light of recent public and viral pro-Palestine support, Israel continues to maintain favorability among elected officials and people in America- in fact, favorability toward Israel has only increased since 2019[0]. And policies favoring Israel is not isolated to a federal level; many U.S. states force educators to sign agreements to not criticiz…

"25% of American Jews consider Israel to be an apartheid state" [0]

"Young evangelicals are increasingly turning away from Israel" [1]

[0] https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/a-quarter-of-u-s-jews-agree-...

[1] https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2021/05/26/a...

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