Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#541

Post by ravenstine » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #316

ravenstine wrote: post #199

This is pretty disturbing considering how necessary dating apps are today. Let's say you get banned from Tinder and consequently Bumble. What do you do now? You can create fake accounts, but they'll eventually find you. Coffee Meets Bagel? Plenty of Fish? Match.com? Don't make me laugh. It's already bad enough that women find it strange that a guy doesn't have an Instagram account (this has been my experience 90% of…

Just a side note - Instagram accounts are nice because they offer social proof. A lot of people feel more comfortable meeting a stranger one-on-one if they have some idea that the person has a life, friends, etc. As for the rest, it sounds like speculative nonsense. I date and know a lot of people who actively date. There are more and better options today to meet more and better people - not less. Not by a longshot.

I think everyone knows that. Personally, I don't spend any time taking countless photographs of myself and my buddies eating and traveling. That's not me, and I think it's a little sad that people can't have any trust in strangers to the extent that they must look up a curated PR profile of them and believe that. Yes, the world has changed. That doesn't mean that everyone is better off that way just because 80+% will go in whatever direction the wind blows. Even if the inevtability of being strange for not being active on Instagram is something people should accept, it shouldn't be the deal breaker that it often seems to be.

> As for the rest, it sounds like speculative nonsense.

That's not particularly respectful.

> I date and know a lot of people who actively date. There are more and better options today to meet more and better people - not less. Not by a longshot.

Maybe you could name some of them?

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#542

Post by sterlind » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #509

antiterra wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there are scenarios where providing a documented reason or appeal is a vulnerability, illegal or both. A too-clear disclosure gives bad actors information on how to circumvent controls around safety, abuse, and fraud. If the reason an account is deleted includes some sort of KYC/Money Laundering issue, OFAC style sanction or child porn, then there can be legal obligation, with severe penalty, to both re…

Any and all of these possibilities (vulnerability, illegal, or both) must be legalized or otherwise reframed as a cost of doing business. Every human deserves to be informed, whoever they are, regardless of status, wherever they are in the world. That we've allowed blackbox proceedings to take over these small quadrants of human society is a societal failure. The burden to secure such systems shall always fall upon t…

A good compromise might be to require explanations or shadow bans to be revealed say, 30 days after the action, in the case of bans because of suspected crimes. In the case of CP or terrorism this gives reasonable time for the Feds to find and arrest you and your conspirators. This is how the Patriot Act worked with publishing warrants, for better or worse.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#543

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:54 PM UTC

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #518

wolverine876 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are temporary monopolies of a technology or creative work, not monopolies of a market.

In a technology driven economy (which we are), a 25 year monopoly on a new technology is a monopoly of a market for a generation.

There are many ways to accomplish the same things. Tech companies have large patent portfolios, yet there is plenty of competition. Perhaps the biggest obstacles to competition are the network effect for social media, and brand power - people use Amazon and Google despite many equally good alternatives.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#544

Post by throwaway14356 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #293

webdoodle wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take it a step further, throw your phone away. I've been digital overseer/fear machine free for almost 2 years now, and can definitively say it's the best decision a person can make for their mental well being.

> nd can definitively say it's the best decision a person can make for their mental well being. No, you can only definitively say it's was the best decision you made for your mental well being. With the plausible suggestion that it might be good for some others, also.

for what it is worth it was great being the last person around without a smart phone. I dont know how old you are but people use to be alone with their own thoughts. Amazing things happen if you ponder situations until satisfied with your own conclusions. the delay made for wonderful long form conversations. exchanging text like we are doing here doesnt build relationships either. if i would die in the next 20 min you wouldnt blink an eye.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#545

Post by wolverine876 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

SllX wrote: post #491

wolverine876 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are temporary monopolies of a technology or creative work, not monopolies of a market.

That’s not a useful distinction. Market monopolies, if they exist, where they exist, are usually tied into those same government granted monopolies. Facebook the bare bones public domain Technology stack is a lot less valuable to investors than Facebook the service on the Facebook servers presented to Facebook account holders on Facebook’s private servers at Facebook.com paid for with Ad revenue generated by Facebook…

Facebook's extraordinary market power seems due to the network effect, not patents.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#546

Post by behnamoh » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

knubie wrote: post #313

999900000999 wrote: post #106

By far the best part is they didn't automatically cancel his subscription. What a horrible company, if you've banned my account that's fine but cancel the subscription and refund my money. If y'all haven't looked at it yet, read up on the FCC's filing against Match. They knowingly prompt up tons of fake profiles, to get you engaged. Horrifically this has lead to romance scams being the number one source of fraud in t…

> By far the best part is they didn't automatically cancel his subscription. What a horrible company, if you've banned my account that's fine but cancel the subscription and refund my money. Could this have something to do with subscribing through the App Store? Maybe there is something in Apple's ToS, or some limitation in their billing API that prevents them from doing this.

I stopped paying for dating apps as soon as I realized tinder, Bumble, and Match constantly try to "lure" me into paying for subscriptions. It happened many times that I would get notifications about new matches/likes just moments after midnight when my subscription plan ended. I found it statistically unlikely that people only liked my profile right after my plan is finished.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#547

Post by samhw » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

errcorrectcode wrote: post #489

samhw wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other symptoms include: a remarkable tendency of people to say "oh, that's OK, they're just coming for the conservatives".

There's something to that, and I skew towards democratic socialist. Doing nothing because it appears to target a perceived "foe" attribute or other demonstrates a lack of integrity in the bystander. Fair is fair, while selective impact games build resentment. One love and so on. We have to get past putting people in boxes for arbitrary disagreement/animosity. Formalized politics must be made obsolete.

I'm agreeing with you, to be clear, and I'm not a conservative. It's disappointing that that seems to be the inference people have made, if I understand correctly the message that was intended to be sent by the smattering of downvotes. It's disturbing that these things are being done to anyone, and that we don't understand the ramifications or the subtleties just because our tribe forbids us to empathise with the people involved.

If it were left-wingers being banned, or centrist Biden supporters, I have absolutely no doubt in the world that there would be a slew of New York Times thinkpieces about 'the complexity of our political liberties in a world where the public square is digital', or whatever nauseating way they would invariably phrase it.

(You can see this from the other reply saying "conservatives hate morals and that's why we can ignore morals in dealing with them", the exact same thing conservatives say about liberals, and eventually they're both justified. But apparently none of us has the necessary higher-order thinking skills to avoid a moral slide into bedlam. This case is perfectly illustrative: no amount of political-tribalist tosh should be able to persuade you that the other side doesn't deserve to be treated morally.)

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#548

Post by smsm42 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

gnopgnip wrote: post #470

smsm42 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you don't seem to realize here is that various app stores, etc almost never sell you any content. They sell you a temporary revokable right to access content. It's like a movie theater ticket, with an added bonus of ushers being paranoid assholes that could kick you out any moment without a reason. You don't own the movie, you can just watch it, if you're lucky. If you think that service isn't worth the price -…

It doesn't matter if you receive a license and not ownership of a physical good or copyright, it still comes down to contract law. If the company you are buying the license from revokes it, and doesn't uphold their side of the contract you can sue them for breach of contract. A contract term that says they can revoke the license at any time for no reason, without refund is unconscionable and unenforceable. Basically…

Contract law allows very wide variety of contracts, and Apple/Google/whatevs have enough expensive lawyers to write the contract that means "you have rights to whatever we allow you and we can revoke it any time we want without any recourse to you". As for the judge - the economics of going to the judge - which would cost you four figures just to start, five to six if you want any real results - is not exactly in your favor. They have lawyers on retainer, you have a day job which pays way less than any single one of those lawyers costs.

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#549

Post by Mandatum » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

I was just banned by EA/DICE for cheating, hacking or exploiting in Battlefield 2042. I'm not sure which, as I did none of those things (or if I did, I wasn't aware of it - but I expect it's unlikely that you can accidentally break those rules). After asking support for more information, they listed the same reasons that were originally emailed to me - cheating, hacking or exploiting the game. No further information given.

Luckily I bought it on Amazon so I'll be refunding through them, and I expect my Origin account to be banned as a result - however it sucks to deal with these hardline policies with zero transparency when you're on the wrong side of the algorithm.

EDIT: After reading more about false-positive bans, it seems these days having the wrong driver installed (as some hacks pretend to be software that communicates through that "bad" driver) or running peripheral scripts (like mouse macros) can cause a ban. I wasn't using macros and I don't have peripherals capable of running them (eg Logitech G series).

Re: Tinder just permabanned me or the problem with big tech

#550

Post by smsm42 » Wed, Dec 22, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #540

wpietri wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part do you see as bullshit? Theater tickets and premium video channels like HBO are long-standing examples of the model. There are some services that act more like purchases, with Amazon video being a big example. But it seems to me that the vast majority of video and music content today is being sold on the access model, not the purchase model.

If the counterparty refuses to prodive a service you've already paid for, they should be liable to reimburse you.

You paid for the right to access content for undefined term, determined by sole discretion of the service provider. You've got what you paid for.