Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#541

Post by cptskippy » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #259

cptskippy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 11 is just another Microsoft operating system setting the groundwork for a generational leap just like Windows ME, Windows Vista, and Windows 8. IMO it is designed to not be widely adopted. When Windows ME was released, it was little more than a reskin of Windows 98 that removed or disabled much of the 16 bit capabilities and support for the ISA architecture in favor of 32 bit and PCI. It couldn't be installe…

I still don't understand how the hell they shipped the Metro Start screen on Windows Server 2012 and 2016. I hope somebody got fired for okaying that decision.

Metro Apps are not based on Win32 and you can have a GUI without installing Win32 at all as is the case with Windows 8 on ARM.

This significantly reduces your threat model at the cost of backward compatibility.

They developed the Metro Start screen specifically for Windows 8 ARM but shipped it across all OSes using that Kernel for consistency.

I think it was starting with Windows 8, all GUI server tools were just a UI running powershell underneath. So you could scrap Win32 and still have full control of the system.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#542

Post by majkinetor » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 8:45 PM UTC

RealStickman_ wrote: post #272

medlazik wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still Windows, we can tweak everything exactly how we want it. https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-tweaker-on-windows-11-wi... I've been using 7taskbar for years, it's rock solid. ExplorerPatcher is a new requirement, works great and adds tons of features.

Maybe it's just me, but tweaking Windows extensively always feels like you're fighting against the OS. I don't have these issues with my Linux installs.

No its not.

Linux has various distros designed for specific professional domain (such as security, music, networking etc.). Windows doesn't have distros (unfortunately, it would be game changer if MS allowed for this) so you absolutely need to tweak it to your preference unless you use it only to for trivial stuff.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#543

Post by majkinetor » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 8:58 PM UTC

cybernautique wrote: post #463

medlazik wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still Windows, we can tweak everything exactly how we want it. https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-tweaker-on-windows-11-wi... I've been using 7taskbar for years, it's rock solid. ExplorerPatcher is a new requirement, works great and adds tons of features.

Honestly, if you're going to modify Windows, why not just go Linux? Monkeypatching Windows into a good (useable?) OS seems like more effort for less return than just picking up a distro. The only advantage I've heard people claim for Windows is that "it just works." If it can't even meet your workflow, why bother?

I like Windows. Any hardware just works. Many linux distros are nice but none I tried could handle the diversity of devices as Windows. To get some things done you even need to recompile the kernel, something unheard of in Windows land.

I customize the heck out of Windows with couple of PowerShell scripts. So to get my own "distribution" I need no more then hour or two wait and almost zero effort starting from default ISO install.

I usually have:

1. Recursive windows updater (handles updates and restarts until no updates are available)

2. 50+ Chocolatey packages ( cinst git pwsh vscode docker-desktop dbeaver dngrep everything doublecmd copyq signal slack viber autohotkey premotem flameshot paint.net krita conemu googlechrome thunderbird foobar2000 ... )

3. Run debloater that removes junk services and apps, everything from start menu and taskbar. This also kills Windows Defender.

4. I run ShutupW10 with almost all settings enabled.

Its basically done from there. Many of those tools also download their own settings on first run, such as vscode getting my config and extensions.

Such Windows environment is as productive as any Linux one for me. The only thing I really miss is decent window manager like i3 on Linux.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#544

Post by boogies » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

majkinetor wrote: post #543

cybernautique wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if you're going to modify Windows, why not just go Linux? Monkeypatching Windows into a good (useable?) OS seems like more effort for less return than just picking up a distro. The only advantage I've heard people claim for Windows is that "it just works." If it can't even meet your workflow, why bother?

I like Windows. Any hardware just works. Many linux distros are nice but none I tried could handle the diversity of devices as Windows. To get some things done you even need to recompile the kernel, something unheard of in Windows land. I customize the heck out of Windows with couple of PowerShell scripts. So to get my own "distribution" I need no more then hour or two wait and almost zero effort starting from defaul…

> To get some things done you even need to recompile the kernel

What things?

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#545

Post by dblohm7 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #379

dblohm7 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox already does Detours-style API hooking -- I was its maintainer for several years.

What is the API hooking used for?

Mostly security and sandboxing stuff.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#546

Post by TheAdamist » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

jccalhoun wrote: post #114

cronix wrote: post #22

So far in the last year or so, I've heard 0 reasons why I'd even need, want or benefit from Win11 over Win10. Tons of reasons in the negative column though. There isn't even anything to salivate over that might make you think it might be worth it to deal with the other tradeoffs. Hard pass.

I updated to 11 on my laptop but kept 10 on my main machine. I see zero reason to update my main computer to 11. I was willing to give centered start button a try but the fact that you can't turn off grouping of applications in the taskbar is a deal breaker. If I have two firefox windows open I want to know it and to be able to pick which one I want without having to hover my mouse over the icon for a second while th…

I'm annoyed they removed the ability to move the start bar, on a widescreen monitor the side seems far superior to the bottom for me, far less wasted empty space.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#547

Post by systoll » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 11:38 PM UTC

greggman3 wrote: post #315

jccalhoun wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I updated to 11 on my laptop but kept 10 on my main machine. I see zero reason to update my main computer to 11. I was willing to give centered start button a try but the fact that you can't turn off grouping of applications in the taskbar is a deal breaker. If I have two firefox windows open I want to know it and to be able to pick which one I want without having to hover my mouse over the icon for a second while th…

It could be worse. You could be on MacOS where Cmd-Tab switches between apps not windows. I currently have 13 browser windows open (each with 3 to 15 tabs) and another 9 windows of other things (terminal, vscode, etc....) and IMO The Cmd-Tab vs Ctrl-Tab vs Ctrl-Up vs Ctrl-Down suck compared to Windows. I really want to easily switch to the previous window, not the previous app. Command + backtick doesn't work either.…

> You could be on MacOS where Cmd-Tab switches between apps not windows

Switching between recently used windows, regardless of app, is bound to control+f4 by default. [Cmd+tab/~ is clearly their preferred method.]

You can switch it to something more ergonomic in 'System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts' – 'Move focus to the active or next window'.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#548

Post by NoImmatureAdHom » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 11:43 PM UTC

timbit42 wrote: post #533

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #468

A lot of people complaining about Windows 11 here. I suggest giving Linux a try! It just works these days. Ubuntu, Mint, and Elementary are fun places to start. "But can I use $MS_THING ?" Yes, if you insist. Just spin up a VM. But really, if work isn't forcing you to use a particular tool, there are better ways of doing that :-)

I'd recommend skipping Ubuntu and the *ubuntus. Linux Mint and Debian are better. Zorin claims to be Windows-like: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin

My thought was that Ubuntu &c. are more "just works" than Debian, and that would be better for new users. I mentally classify Mint with the *Ubuntus. Ubuntu by default used to contain more proprietary, closed-source stuff which, sadly, results in more things (peripherals, wifi, graphics, etc.) just working. Is this no longer true?

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#549

Post by throwaway19937 » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 3:01 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #47

0xC0ncord wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the microsoft-edge:// protocol is used throughout the Windows UI and menus and will always open in Edge regardless of the user's preferences. If you click on a link in say, the Settings UI, it will ignore your default browser preference and open in Edge with no way to change it.

I wonder if they plan on using that protocol to do non-standard stuff that third party browsers won't support? That's the only technical reason I can think of for Microsoft to create a new protocol.

Another possible reason is that the user can load help pages or search results even if the primary browser is broken, has a corrupt install, etc.

Re: Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

#550

Post by hakfoo » Sat, Dec 18, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #187

willis936 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not old and I have lived to see this sentiment come and go at least twice before. We're still on Windows.

> I'm not old and I have lived to see this sentiment come and go at least twice before. We're still on Windows. In that time we've seen Microsoft concede the mobile market to iOS and Android and the server market to Linux and Google Docs manage to take a major chunk out of MS Office. Microsoft is still extremely profitable, but it's not because of Windows anymore. Which is why they're now comfortable risking defectio…

It feels like, to an extent, Microsoft was all but admitting they were giving away Windows for home users (how many of us are still on perpetually upgraded Win7 licenses?) and betting (the desktop software sector) on commercial licensing and Office.

I notice a lot of OEM PCs, for example, come with an Office 365 trial install. I'm sure the OEM deal is "Windows is 30 cents cheaper if you include the trial."

But if the OEM is already installing Ubuntu or whatever, they 1) no longer need to negotiate to shave pennies off the Windows license and 2) have an office suite pre-installed, potentially capturing a large number of the easy customers who'd click on the first thing available.

How does Microsoft keep that sales channel open?

I can't imagine them going the road of the shovelware antivirus vendors and outright paying OEMs for presence. But I could see them packaging up a cut down "Linux Subservices for Windows" product. This would be basically a blessed virtual machine package, which OEMs would be willing to include-- or maybe even pay a token sum for-- because, well, people still want to run their games and legacy software. More importantly, it's a way to get millions of people to install a MS-provided package on their desktops, which could include cross-promotional offers and telemetry. (Yes, there will be the inevitable shut-up packages from third parties, but they have those for Windows already).